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Old January 19th, 2008, 11:28 AM
wooter wooter is offline
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hello, nice to meet you all!

I hope I'm in the right place to ask for some advice. I have a 2.5 year old bichon/shihtzu x (abby) who just had her first litter of 5 beautiful pups. abby was overwhelmed at first, but seemed to be settling in as a good mom. it is now day three and she is very anxious, crying and displaying nesting, digging behaviour. the pups seem to be very content, but abby is distraught. she has a comfortable den-like bed (where she delivered her babies) it is quiet and secure. any suggestions why she may be so upset. i should say this is my first experience at having puppies in my home too. thanks for any advice. joy
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Old January 19th, 2008, 11:40 AM
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Welcome wooter!

No help to offer, I have no idea what the problem might be, but I still wanted to welcome you to the forum, and I'm sure someone will come along and help you.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 12:24 PM
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Hi, wooter. Welcome to the board.

First of all, I have to tell you that this is a very pro-spay/neuter board, so it's really not a good place to come for advice of this sort. There are a few members with litter experience but they may not post everyday.

It sounds like your dog is uncomfortable. She may be developing a pyometra (uterine infection) from a retained placenta or (heaven forbid) a retained pup. Is she still eating and drinking? If she's not, treat it as an emergency and get her to a vet now! If she's still eating and drinking, you at least need to call a vet and find out if they think she needs to be seen right away.

Remember, if the dam dies, the pups will be relying on you for feeding--every two to three hours for the next few days. It's very hard work and they may not all pull through.

So please get Abby in to the vet as soon as you can. And while you're there, please ask about getting her spayed.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 09:28 PM
t.pettet t.pettet is offline
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hello, nice to

It is customary to have the mother and litter checked out by vet as soon as possible after birth (1-2 days). Please be a responsible owner and take them to your vets and then schedule a spay while you're there.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 07:40 AM
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Sorry, can't offer any advice, but to take her and the pups to the vet. They should not be separated for any length of time.

I second t.pettet's idea of scheduling a spay while you are there, there are already too many unwanted cats and dogs in the world, check out your local shelter.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 10:28 AM
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bethaliz bethaliz is offline
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The nesting behaviour indicates that something is not right. Usually at this point the mothers just lay with the pups and when they leave to do their buisness it's very quick to get back to the pups where they just lay and care for them. It sounds like she has retained a puppy or a placenta. If it is not dealt with ASAP she can develop (if it hasn't already started) a serious infection which can kill her. She should see a vet right away. They will most likely give her a shot of Oxycotin to clean her out and she will be able to return home. However it may require an emergancy spay.

Igf she is able to remain intact it is advisable to wait until the pups are weaned and then spay her. With breeding complications you do not want to breed her again as the trouble tends to be worse the next time around.

I hope that all is well with your girl and her pups. Keep us posted
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Old January 21st, 2008, 10:47 AM
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mona_b mona_b is offline
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Please please get her to the vet ASAP.


Quote:
They will most likely give her a shot of Oxycotin to clean her out
Ummm I highly doubt that it's Oxycotin your refuring to.Oxycotin is a powerful "pain killer"...It doesn't clean anything out.People sell this drug on the streets.It's a major "high"..This is a top drug that gets stolen.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 12:27 PM
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bethaliz bethaliz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mona_b View Post
Please please get her to the vet ASAP.




Ummm I highly doubt that it's Oxycotin your refuring to.Oxycotin is a powerful "pain killer"...It doesn't clean anything out.People sell this drug on the streets.It's a major "high"..This is a top drug that gets stolen.
Sorry spelt it wrong its oxytocin..........Here's a link about it's use

http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0023.htm

Its given to cause contractions of the uterus. When there is trouble passing a pup or contractions have stopped during labor. It's also given to strengthen contracts to help pass pups as well. It is often given after birth to cause mild contractions to clear out the uterus of retained placenta's and other post birth discharge.

The actions discribed by the OP, suggests that there is trouble, most likely a retained placenta or pup (baised on the nesting behaviour). Regardless the dog needs to go to the vet for the shot and to be checked out. There is 100% something not right and medical attention is needed. Also with the complications of this litter it's advisable to have this dog spayed. Regardless as to weather or the op would like to breed in the future. Having these types of complications can open the bitch up for all manner of infections, and problems in the future.

I certianly hope that the OP has taken the dog to the vet and that they post back about how she's doing.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 12:50 PM
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Bethaliz , you shouldn't come here and give people those kind of advices , giving med's name that cause contractions !!!! Coming from a true BYB ! This dog needs to see a vet and that's it !
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 10:19 AM
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I second what Frenchy said.

This dog needs to see a vet ASAP..Something you are not bethaliz.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 02:09 PM
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I agree and I hope you have taken Abby and the pups to the vet by now and also made an appointment to have her spayed once the pups are weaned. Good luck and post with an update.
  #12  
Old January 22nd, 2008, 05:47 PM
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wow... not the response i was expecting

First let me start by saying that I too am all for people having their pets spayed or neutered to avoid an unwanted pregnancy, I am aware of all the unwanted animals in the shelters. In fact I have adopted a few over the years. This pregnancy was very much wanted and planned, Abby did see the vet and I knew she would be having 5 pups, I also spoke to him during the whelping and a couple of times after. I was totally prepared and well read on what I might expect during the whelping. We are not all irresponsible pet owners. I knew there were no pups or placentas that had not been delivered, and I knew that my dog was showing all healthy signs following the birth of her pups. ie: eating, drinking, pooping, etc. After talking to a woman who breeds small dogs for a living, I was told that it can be quite normal for the bitch to be overwhelmed at the beginning. Her nervousness and anxiety were preventing her from immediately taking on her role as a nurturing mom (something the vet never mentioned once.) With support, patience and encouragement I am happy to report that Abby has stepped up to the plate and is happily nursing and attending to her pups. All the pups are fat and content. I am glad I did not rush out to the vet as I think moving Abby and her babies would only have added to her anxiety. She freaks out a little every time we go the vets as it is!!!! So again let me say to all of you who would insinuate that I might have been irresponsible.......I believe in mother nature, animal instinct and some common sense.....and I thought I might get some helpful advice from someone who had experienced something similar. Thanks to those who provided that. This has been a learning experience for both Abby and I, and one I wouldn't have missed for the world. You will also be happy to know that the appointment to have Abby spayed was made at her pre whelping visit. I always had intended to only let her have one litter. Next time a novice asks a question on this site...please don't be so hard and judgemental. Think about it....if I was an irresponsible pet owner, who didn't care about my dog...would I even take the time to go on the internet and try to find some answers.
  #13  
Old January 22nd, 2008, 06:10 PM
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bethaliz bethaliz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
Bethaliz , you shouldn't come here and give people those kind of advices , giving med's name that cause contractions !!!! Coming from a true BYB ! This dog needs to see a vet and that's it !
Quote:
Originally Posted by mona_b View Post
I second what Frenchy said.

This dog needs to see a vet ASAP..Something you are not bethaliz.
Did any one bother to really READ my responses? In short I said that the dog NEEDED to go to the vet, no question. I said that it sounded like a retained pup or placenta by her behaviour. That if this is the case the VET would probly give her a shot called Oxytocin. What's wrong with that?

I did NOT say for the OP to give the shot. It's something that's done by a vet, while they may send some home with the patient you have to get it and instruction from a VET. All I was doing was giving insight to what I thought might be happening and what the VET might do. It's a shot that's given all the time. So PLEASE next time PLEASE read.

Also, enough with the BYB comments to me. I am not a BYB. Again I have NEVER bred a litter. I have been MENTORING under a top RESPONSIBLE breeder for the last 4 years. I have helped whelp and rear and find homes for her dogs. I understand what's involved, thanks to my mentor. I do not have the money, or resources. Having the information and sharing it does not make me a bad person or a BYB. So please give it a rest. I was just being helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wooter View Post
With support, patience and encouragement I am happy to report that Abby has stepped up to the plate and is happily nursing and attending to her pups. All the pups are fat and content. I am glad I did not rush out to the vet as I think moving Abby and her babies would only have added to her anxiety. ......... You will also be happy to know that the appointment to have Abby spayed was made at her pre whelping visit.
I'm glad to hear that Abby and her pups are doing well. I'd love to see pictures. I am glad to hear that you will be having her spayed.

I would like to point out that the symptoms you posted are indicitive of a dam in distress. It's good that you have been in contact with your vet. It is important tho, to have them all checked out by a Vet to make sure that everything is progressing properly, schedual the removae of dew claws and vacinations.

Again I'm glad things are going well.
  #14  
Old January 22nd, 2008, 08:55 PM
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Frenchy Frenchy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bethaliz View Post
Did any one bother to really READ my responses?

Oh yes we do read your posts .....

Also, enough with the BYB comments to me. I am not a BYB.
Could have fooled me. And I find it extremely weird that you have been back for about a week now , and since then , we keep getting new members posting questions about backyard breeding. Lots of coincidences hey ?
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 09:15 PM
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bethaliz bethaliz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
Could have fooled me. And I find it extremely weird that you have been back for about a week now , and since then , we keep getting new members posting questions about backyard breeding. Lots of coincidences hey ?
Apparently you didn't read, or at least not properly or you would have understood the message. Which was vet, possible cause, possible treatment. Just because you are not educated about it does not make it wrong for me to share what I know.

As for my being "back" I read pretty much every day, but with school I don't always have time to post. And when I do, I get attacked, which isn't exactly encouraging. The term is new, and I've got some free time, so why not post when I think I can be helpful. There's nothing wrong with that. As for their being a lot of BYB posts, I have no control over that. I just answer when I think I might have some useful input. I've actually learned a lot from this site about different things, including health, food, training, and attidue......especially the type of attidue I don't want to have.

As to keep with forum rules about thread hacking, I will do my best to refrain from getting caught up in petty attacks from individuals who have no clue who I am or what I am about.

I am happy for the OP that her dog is doing well. I feel sorry that they feel let down. I hope for the best for the dog and her pups.
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 10:46 PM
t.pettet t.pettet is offline
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hello, nice to meet

Instead of reading off some vet manual to bybs regarding meds and medical procedures and offering them encouragement in their breeding practice you should be respecting the values of this board whose members are for the most part involved in rescue work and rehab. Most of these pets taken in by foster and rescue workers are the product of byb's or puppy millers's attempts to make $$$ off animals with no regard for their futures. As you have been told too many times to count this is a very pro spay and neuter board and its members are striving to reduce the unwanted (dumped) pets sitting in shelters waiting to be pts because there are NOT enough experienced, responsible homes for all the pups/kittens produced by unethical, ignorant bybs. You need a reality check so go to your local humane society and watch the unwanted beung euthanized, maybe then you'll get it!
  #17  
Old January 22nd, 2008, 11:29 PM
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rainbow rainbow is offline
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Wooter and Bethaliz, I think you both should watch this video....

http://www.brightlion.com/InHope/InHope_en.aspx


And, also some information for you to read....

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/breeding/breeder2.html

http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/breeding/breeder3.html
  #18  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 02:57 AM
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
This pregnancy was very much wanted and planned,
Spoken like a true BYB....

Quote:
So again let me say to all of you who would insinuate that I might have been irresponsible.......
Don't you see,you were very irresponsible.Responsible pet owners s/n.They don't add to the overpopulation.Reputable responsible breeders don't breed "mutts"..BYB's do.


t.pettet

bethaliz,you say you have been mentoring under a top responsible breeder,but it really seemed weird how you asked MANY questions which this breeder should have answered instead of us.One comment you made was that she only places dogs on a breeding contract with people she knows.What's up with that?????..

I was very good friends with my breeder,would she have dropped her dogs off to have pups at my place?NO..If breeders have a show to go to ,or there is an emergency,they already have a contact list for other breeders.
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 02:09 PM
wooter wooter is offline
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bye bye

again, thank you to those who offered helpful advice and did not attack me for seeking it. i have never read such nasty comments and personal attacks against people who all share the same right to their thoughts and opinions. it all seems very immature to me. i don't feel i did anything wrong and i have loving homes for all of my pups. some you need to get off your high horse and stop with the attitude that "only YOUR opinion matters." abby, her pups and I will not be returning to this site for ANY reason. anyone who would like pics or updates can email me at ****** I hope those of you with the "know it all " attitude don't ever find yourself living in an area where the closest vet is 3 hours by car (weather permitting) because with your mind set you should not have any pets. Imagine no pet in your home! Good bye

Last edited by Blathach; January 23rd, 2008 at 08:28 PM.
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 08:30 PM
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