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  #61  
Old May 19th, 2007, 04:23 PM
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Shamrock Shamrock is offline
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I agree as well, clm.. well said.
The motives beind educating others is certainly admirable, but talking with friends, family, or others online.. is not the same thing as approaching strangers in public. This is an area that is a minefield of "unknowns".


How are most going to interpret this,really? Are you more likely to educate them.. or just offend/and or anger them?
I'd be about as receptive to this myself as I would to someone taking it upon themselves to critique my own human food selections in the supermarket.
Giving them a pamphlet could be be helpful they are more likely to at consider the printed word.. look at it later, without feeling called upon to explain the "whys" for their choices.

Some may truly not know, not care, but others do know and do care. They simply have no other choice. No matter how tactful, pointing out the shortcomings of the food they use can carry the unspoken message that they are too stupid, uniformed or uncaring to "do better".

People on a very limited budget are often denied many pleasures in life that other take for granted.. vacations, vehicles, restaurant meals, even a computer and internet.
Would it be right that they also be denied the joys and comfort of having pets, based only on ability to feed top of the line food?
And how many more shelter animals would there be, if this became a defining factor? Sorry, you're too poor for pets. Good diet is important of course.. but we'd all agree that it's only one part of the equation. It certainly isnt any guarantee of the total care recieved.

I know people who are in a very tight financial situation, living on a disablity pension. Their pets are well cared for, receive tons of loving personal attention, and are excercised twice daily. Now at middle age, they remain healthy and happy, anyone would view them as thriving in this home.
When vet expenses arise.. they're not ignored. A financial strain, but one that is met through a loan, or a vet billing arrangement.
There primary pet food is not the best, but all they can afford. It's not a matter of budgeting.. the money is just not there.
When they have extra funds.. they buy better food. They supplement with home cooked food to increase nutrition received.
Based on all the positives they offer that their pets benefit from, to me they qualify as responsible and good pet owners.
You might see them in Walmart. They have lots of company out there.
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  #62  
Old May 19th, 2007, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock
They simply have no other choice. No matter how tactful, pointing out the shortcomings of the food they use can carry the unspoken message that they are too stupid, uniformed or uncaring to "do better"
That is true and very frustrating. I am on a low income, disability in fact and in no way can even follow Dr recommended diet for myself. I don't really know how other people survive on disability alone and have pets, its a bit of a mystery. What is the going rate now for something like meow mix? Does anyone know? It really does seem to me that something like sardines and or organ meat would be cheaper. I lived off of brown rice and beans for years while most people I met on low income opted for KD which is much more expensive and very unhealthy. Just a bit more food for thought on the subject. Btw my roomy pays the internet and the computer I have was from a grant for people that are disabled (took three years of work to qualify). I'm too poor for pets.:sad:
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  #63  
Old May 19th, 2007, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maya View Post
Btw my roomy pays the internet and the computer I have was from a grant for people that are disabled (took three years of work to qualify). I'm too poor for pets.:sad:
And that's another thing , people saying this person has this or that so should be able to pay more for their pet's food. They don't know the other people's life, their income and such. I too have a computer that was given to me, and I pay $14.95 monthly for my internet connection. So it's pretty unfair to judge people with these kinds of comments
  #64  
Old May 19th, 2007, 05:14 PM
momma2aSiamese momma2aSiamese is offline
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Going rate for Meow Mix. Been awhile since I even looked at them.

Online at Petsmart 12 tubs of wet is 10.99
Online at Petco the regular packs are 24 for 11.99 and a 12 case 4.79 and a bag is anywhere for 4.79 to 12.99.

I buy Eagle Pack for the wet. I can get 6 cans for a little over 6.00 and that lasts about 12 days. I buy TimberWolf for the dry and 1 4lb bag costs 10.00 roughly and lasts a month (or close to it).

We don't make a lot of money but the better food seems to last longer than the cheaper stuff I was buying. This may not be the same for everyone especially if they have more than one pet.
  #65  
Old May 19th, 2007, 05:20 PM
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Thank you, Maya and Frenchy, because while I can afford to feed my dog a better food now, I believe love for a pet and feeding the best your budget will afford will surpass feeding those foods the highest on the list. I do not think we should become too elite - as long as we do the best we can, our fur kids will love us. It is good to be well educated. I come from a university environment, but I think love surpasses everything.
  #66  
Old May 19th, 2007, 05:40 PM
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technodoll technodoll is offline
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some people love their dogs very much... yet still chain them to a doghouse in the back of the yard 24/7 do they know better? do they care? dunno... but they still love their dog.

sometimes love is NOT enough. :sad:
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  #67  
Old May 19th, 2007, 08:13 PM
Furbaby Momma Furbaby Momma is offline
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I agree with Clm and Shamrock, Thank You for writing excellent posts.
  #68  
Old May 19th, 2007, 10:55 PM
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Shaykeija Shaykeija is offline
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OK so I am going to put my in. When I was younger and lived a home we fed our hunting dogs dog chow and table scraps. Never had any problems with them. No allergies, no coat problems nothing. They all lived until it was their time. With Akeija, I fed her dog chow also until i switched her to performatrin ultra. No problems with her, she lived until she was 16. Sophie DVP duck and potato from Purina she was on all her life....allergies and hot spots after I put her on a high quality food died from enlarged heart. Missie on high quality foods, many food changes...colitis, Tyra from Purina (for the first 7 years of her life) to high quality foods..gastro problems now and got allergies, now she can only tolerate vet food with out getting slimy poops. Now Tyra is a Canadian American Champion and I have her vet records. No gastro problems until I introduced a better food. Yes there is good food and crappy food out there but sometimes the crappy food works. You can always add veggies and chopped meat. Gots me flame suit on.
  #69  
Old May 19th, 2007, 11:04 PM
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technodoll technodoll is offline
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hmm sounds like you just got unlucky with a few genetically-weak dogs... no contest, MOST dogs on better foods fare much better than dogs on crappy foods. just like kids, feeding them a diet high in sugar and fat will most likely lead to more health problems than if they eat a lean diet high in fruits, veggies, fiber, etc. it's just logical

many people have the opposite experience you have: dogs were on cheap foods with innumerable ailments and afflictions, but after being switched to a better diet, these same pets are in much better health and have less (or no!) allergies, recurring infections of ear and bladder, ibd, diabeties, obesity, bad teeth, etc.
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Last edited by Ford; May 20th, 2007 at 11:04 PM. Reason: slander
  #70  
Old May 19th, 2007, 11:35 PM
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Technodoll, I have to agree, far more pressure on companies to get that bottom line. Hence the whole recall fiasco. :sad: Hard lesson learned for a lot of companies and a lot of people. On a positive note, it made me a whole lot more aware of what was going into my pets bellies.

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  #71  
Old May 19th, 2007, 11:38 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technodoll View Post
many people have the opposite experience you have: dogs were on cheap foods with innumerable ailments and afflictions, but after being switched to a better diet, these same pets are in much better health and have less (or no!) allergies, recurring infections of ear and bladder, ibd, diabeties, obesity, bad teeth, etc.
Yep. That's Jemma and Boo. When we got Boo, I didn't know better and I fed Iams chicken. He threw up EVERY night for 4 months. After countless vet trips, antibiotic shots and pills, we finally figured out it was the chicken doing it, so we put him on Euk lamb and rice. Then we got Jemma. Both did ok on lamb and rice but seemed to be always itchy. Not itchy enough to need a vet visit, but itchy enough for us to realize we had to do something. So I looked for a food without any of the common ingredients to any food they had had before and I found Solid Gold. I put them on Wolf king and they flourished. They had shiny soft coats they had never had before. They had energy they never had before. And they didn't go to the vet for little things anymore. They were just healthier overall. I didn't expect it. I really didn't.

The problem is, people think just switching to a better food will work for their dog and make them shinier and healthier, but that's not always the case. If I switch Boo to Evo chicken, he'll be up all night puking again.

So let's say I had him on Euk Lamb and Rice, and he was doing fine-ish. And then I decide to go one up and give him Evo chicken, not knowing he had a food allergy/intolerance to chicken. Right away, I'd assume that he just can't handle the holistic food. That's not true, right? Just because the ingredients are better, it doesn't mean a particular food is "the one" for your dog. Nearly ALL crap foods are "the one" and work because they're full of additives that make it so that your dog barely digests it on its own. Even if your dog has a food intolerance, it will STILL digest the food. When Boo puked on Iams, he didn't puke the food up. He threw up bile only. Only when he had better foods with chicken later on (by accident) did he throw up the food. The Iams just digested itself faster than his body reacted to it.

I do feel strongly about this because there isn't a person I meet who doesn't comment on my dogs' coats. They are softer than any dog I've ever met and shinier too. I MUST be doing something right. I also feel strongly because I have made food a priority. My man and I don't go anywhere, we don't travel, we don't eat out very often, we don't go to movies, we cut, budget, and save wherever we can. Our dogs ARE our luxury and our hobby. We put everything into them.

I hate when people bring up budget yet they still have cable, still smoke, still have sporty cars with high insurance costs, still have a mortgage instead of a rent, etc etc etc. The money is THERE, you just choose to spend it elsewhere. That's FINE. It really is. But don't tell me you don't have the money. I had next to no money and I still had the money for good food for my dogs. I just don't buy it.

Last edited by Ford; May 20th, 2007 at 11:05 PM.
  #72  
Old May 20th, 2007, 12:04 AM
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Maya Maya is offline
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He he I've got my torch ready. Just kidding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaykeija
You can always add veggies and chopped meat. Gots me flame suit on.
That is a good point. I should hope there are not too many doggies and kitties subsisting on corn meal gluten, flavour and by products alone.:sad: I was just at the grocery store looking at lables and I think there could very well be more protien in a can of sardines than there is in a whole bag of some of those cheaper foods.:sad:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prin
The problem is, people think just switching to a better food will work for their dog and make them shinier and healthier, but that's not always the case. If I switch Boo to Evo chicken, he'll be up all night puking again.
That is soooo true, another reason why it is not a black and white issue. I also do agree it is a priority thing for most (not all) people. If the money is going to obvious luxuries. I feel like I can be pretty candid about this since I've lived like a dog.:P

Quote:
Originally Posted by momma2aSiamese
Online at Petsmart 12 tubs of wet is 10.99
Online at Petco the regular packs are 24 for 11.99 and a 12 case 4.79 and a bag is anywhere for 4.79 to 12.99.
Thanks for checking that I was curious what the range was. So it looks like you could certainly purchase the "raw" supplies for about the same or less. I guess it would come down to time and interest.
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  #73  
Old May 20th, 2007, 01:05 AM
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Shaykeija Shaykeija is offline
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Well I hope you don't think Missie and Tyra are getting crappy food, They get high quality food and I also treat them to organic beef, chicken, eggs and fish. Fresh veggies and fruits also. I make them home made treats and after a year of dabbling I have all the ailments under control. The colitis is just like humans get and when Missie gets stressed it acts up. Tyra on the other hand is doing 110 % better. I tried the raw diet on her and boy did she puke on that. She would not go back to it. My dogs are not genetically weak, Sophie contacted a virus and it affected her heart. Sophie and Tyra were top producers and they had all the genetic testing done because they were show dogs. Tyra's father is an international champion and is used for breeding all over the world. 4 of Tyra's pups are USA and Canadian Champs and one of her pups is going for his international. Following his grandfather's foot steps in bettering the breed.

We all love our pets and do the best we can for them. I know my vet bill's for last year were over 7K. I spent a lot of money trying to save Sophie's life. I would do it all over again for her.
  #74  
Old May 20th, 2007, 02:08 AM
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Dracko Dracko is offline
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I have to say I've always fed my animals high quality food but recently switched them to include more raw food. I am shocked how much less Dracko (GSD) is shedding. Not to mention how much less he poops. It is a lot more formed and easier to pick up.

And I agree with those that said an animal can "survive" on lower quality food, but not necessarily thrive. They can't tell us how they feel. So we don't really know.
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  #75  
Old May 20th, 2007, 06:24 PM
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MyBirdIsEvil MyBirdIsEvil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prin View Post
It's so true. We even see that with the holistic foods. They put out a great food and then gradually kill it to save money on production.

That's actually a really good point. I believe someone earlier mentioned big chains getting on the holistic foods bandwagon but that's not necessarily a good thing like you would think.

There's a reason that ***** and other crappy brands are carried in large supermarkets, it's because they're willing to use crappy ingredients to cut costs.
When a large supermarket chain starts carrying a good food they'll eventually want the brand to start lowering their price (this is especially true of one major worldwide corporation, I think you all know who I mean).
The brand will either stick to their ethics, keep ingredients good and say no to lowering the price (which risks them being pulled from the shelves), or they'll start using crappy ingredients in order to stay competitive with other brands so the store will keep carrying their product.

Good holistic foods can either keep their product in smaller stores with a smaller customer base and charge more yet keep those great ingredients, or they can go to a more well known and easily accessable chain and cut costs yet sell to more people and gather a wider customer base.

Either way, the bottom line is the consumer. As long as you keep seeing so many people buying huge bags of foods such as Ol' Roy and complaining about the price the large chains will want to carry cheap crappy food rather than the good stuff. The chains want to cater to the largest amount of consumers possible, and in general people care mostly about their pocketbook.

Sure people like us would like better foods to be more conveniently accessable, but remember that convenience comes with a price (generally a drop in quality).That's why even if you want to find healthy and high quality food for yourself, such as organic food, you still often have to go to a smaller store to find it.

I'm not saying don't pull for bigger chains to carry better products, but since those of us who feed holistic foods are in the minority it won't necessarily have the outcome that we'd like.

Last edited by Ford; May 20th, 2007 at 11:06 PM. Reason: slander
  #76  
Old May 20th, 2007, 06:29 PM
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It will be interesting to see what happens to Nutro now that they've been bought out by Mars.
  #77  
Old May 20th, 2007, 11:08 PM
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This thread has run its course and will now be closed.
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