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  #61  
Old January 17th, 2009, 10:33 PM
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meow, I am so sorry to hear about your poor kitty.

Besides all the excellent information that sugarcatmom gave you ....here is the thread that growler has ongoing about her kitty with kidney disease ......

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread....kidney+disease
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  #62  
Old January 18th, 2009, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by meow View Post
My new vet encouraged me to report him to the licensing board for misrepresentation and doing too much surgery all at once and for not letting me visit her in 2 weeks. I am so angry.
I agree you should be reporting this vet to the licensing board/veterinary medical association in your state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meow View Post
Then I found out my cat has BEGINNING signs of renal disease. Guess what: no sign sign of this pre-surgery but now showing signs post-surgery.
Do you or your vet have the notes the Dr wrote regarding the surgery? or did the surgeon give you a complete breakdown of the bill - showing what was used for anaesthesia and how it was administered? There has been some talk from vet techs about the procedure of "gassing or masking down" adversely affecting animals with existing kidney or heart issues.

Depends on what the results are from the blood testing and the urine test. For example: if the BUN/urea & creatinine numbers rise rapidly but the Urine Specific Gravity is normal you may be looking at a kidney infection, kidney stones or hypertension not necessarily kidney failure. If the BUN/urea is high but the creatinine is normal you are looking at dehydration or gastro-intestinal problems. If the BUN/urea and phosphorus are high but creatinine is normal or only slightly elevated there are other issues happening in the tubes before the kidneys. BUN/urea & creatinine alone can not determine kidney failure the USG is a very important measure in kidney disease.

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Originally Posted by meow View Post
They are now going to put her on Hill's k.d. thru the feeding tube. the vet said to give her whatever she will eat by mouth for now. once the feeding tube is out then we have to work on transitioning her to a low protein diet.
The low protein is best for kidney failure way of thinking is not the most updated thoughts for feeding a kidney cat. The protein level can be normal same for all cats, you just need to watch the phosphorus levels, try to keep that low. If you lower the protein level it adversely affects the cats biological need for protein to maintain muscle mass etc. The quality of the protein is important though. The phosphorus is what makes the kidneys work harder to clear out not so much with the protein. My grrl is 17 years old we've been dealing with Chronic Renal Failure for almost 2 years now & she's eating raw food & doing great on it.

The Wellness Turkey, Chicken, Beef & Chicken are the lowest phos levels of the quality holistic canned foods. Sugarcatmom can advise you about how/when to use those for the etube since I have no experience with that.

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Originally Posted by meow View Post
She is doing more things that seem like her: walking with her tail sitcking up , jumping onto bed at night, sitting in sun, purring.
With any illness how the cat feels is very important in their recovery/maintenance. Sounds like she's feeling pretty good BTW What's her name?
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  #63  
Old January 18th, 2009, 07:35 AM
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OMG,I am sooo proud of our kitty-gurus,you girls are amazing
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  #64  
Old January 18th, 2009, 09:10 AM
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Awww Meow,that little girl has been through hell on earth for sure,but she's lucky she has you to love her and care for her.
Cats are mysterious,what they love to eat one day,they'll turn their noses up to,the next.
I would feed her a good variety of Wellness cans or any other good food,I always vary my cats food,so they don't get bored.
How serious is the beginning of renal failure,it does not have to be bad and she will not have to eat the vet-food,Sugarcatmom and Growler,I am sure know what to feed her.
to you and your little girl..
they say it is the beginning,. beginning. she was fine pre-surgery. now her urine is not concentrated. they will keep checking it each week for a bit
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  #65  
Old January 18th, 2009, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
My cat does the exact same thing. Which is why he's now trained me to offer him a different brand or flavour at every meal. Perhaps your kitty is the same.



Sorry to hear that. Do you know what painkiller it was that they used? Also, I don't suppose you have (or can get) a copy of the lab work that indicates she has renal issues? The urinalysis along with the blood panel would be helpful.



Please don't use K/D. This is a horrible food and it's use for renal issues in cats is completely misguided. She needs a normal amount of protein, it's the phosphorus that should be limited, and there are much better foods that fit the bill. Depending on her blood work, she may be a candidate for phosphorus binders or other medications/supplements. Here is some info for you on CRF in cats:
http://felineoutreach.org/EducationD...=KidneyDisease
http://www.felinecrf.com/index.htm
http://www.felinecrf.org/

I'd suggest finding some Innova Evo 95% venison and/or beef and tube-feeding her that instead of the K/D. You could also offer her Felidae Chicken & Rice (would be difficult to tube feed unless blenderized very fine). These have low phosphorus but much better quality ingredients than anything Hill's has to offer.


All we can do is the best we can given the info that we have. Please don't blame yourself!!! And I know this may be really hard right now, but try to put on your happy face for your girl. Cat's are extremely sensitive to our emotions and she may be picking up on your anguish.




Awesome! These are definitely excellent signs.
I will discuss other food options with the vet. They don't seem to have the same opinion of the food you all do here. I understand that organic is better. Many vets (like dr's) don't understand nutirition. Thank you for your help. I know. I am trying to put on a happy face for kitty. I love her.
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  #66  
Old January 18th, 2009, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by growler View Post
I agree you should be reporting this vet to the licensing board/veterinary medical association in your state.



Do you or your vet have the notes the Dr wrote regarding the surgery? or did the surgeon give you a complete breakdown of the bill - showing what was used for anaesthesia and how it was administered? There has been some talk from vet techs about the procedure of "gassing or masking down" adversely affecting animals with existing kidney or heart issues.

Depends on what the results are from the blood testing and the urine test. For example: if the BUN/urea & creatinine numbers rise rapidly but the Urine Specific Gravity is normal you may be looking at a kidney infection, kidney stones or hypertension not necessarily kidney failure. If the BUN/urea is high but the creatinine is normal you are looking at dehydration or gastro-intestinal problems. If the BUN/urea and phosphorus are high but creatinine is normal or only slightly elevated there are other issues happening in the tubes before the kidneys. BUN/urea & creatinine alone can not determine kidney failure the USG is a very important measure in kidney disease.



The low protein is best for kidney failure way of thinking is not the most updated thoughts for feeding a kidney cat. The protein level can be normal same for all cats, you just need to watch the phosphorus levels, try to keep that low. If you lower the protein level it adversely affects the cats biological need for protein to maintain muscle mass etc. The quality of the protein is important though. The phosphorus is what makes the kidneys work harder to clear out not so much with the protein. My grrl is 17 years old we've been dealing with Chronic Renal Failure for almost 2 years now & she's eating raw food & doing great on it.

The Wellness Turkey, Chicken, Beef & Chicken are the lowest phos levels of the quality holistic canned foods. Sugarcatmom can advise you about how/when to use those for the etube since I have no experience with that.



With any illness how the cat feels is very important in their recovery/maintenance. Sounds like she's feeling pretty good BTW What's her name?
i do not want to post her name here in case the bad vet sees this. i have to wait. i will share what you said with the vet. yes i have pre-op and post-op blood work and urinalysis.
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  #67  
Old January 18th, 2009, 09:19 AM
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I am so, so sorry to hear about your kitty . I would report him and would be telling my old vet about him too so he doesn't send anybody else to this "dental surgeon".
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  #68  
Old January 18th, 2009, 09:22 AM
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SugarMom

How do i do wellness in a feeding tube? How much food to how much water?
what size can of food?

thank you
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  #69  
Old January 18th, 2009, 09:55 AM
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Test results

I do see my kitty drinking water at her drinkwell bowl 1-2x per day. she looks like she is drinking alot of water. she is on hills i.d. food now thru the tube and is holding it down. i offer her wellness, paul newman, meow mix, fancy feast, harmony by mouth...at this point anything to get her to eat with her mouth. she eats by moouth about 1x every 6 days.


On the receipt for surgery it says Buprenex for the anthesthic. it also says ket-valo sedation. it also says isoflurane and propofol/ketamine/diazepam. all this is from the surgery receipt. then they put her on gabapentin.

she stayed at the vet for 2 weeks and he would not let me visit her so i have NO idea what the was done to her in that time.

I have no idea what any of these numbers mean but here they are PRE-OP:

Urea Nitrogen 33 - normal range
Creatine 1.9 - normal range
phosphorus 3.7 - normal
BUN 17 - normal range
amylase 1625 - high - what is this?

do you want to know anything else?? I'll post it.

2 weeks later after being held hostage at vet for 2 weeks:
Urea Nitrogen 32
Creatine 3.5 - high
BUN - 9 normal but low
hemaocrit - 21.4 low

Then I took her to the ICU hospital. They human scored blood work and said she was not anemic:

CREA a little high 3.0
PHOS normal 5.0
GLOB slightly high 4.6
everything else was normal

Two days ago they did a urine test. I don't have results b/c new vet called me on phone with them. urine was not concentrated. i think he said it was 1.something. he wants to re-check it when i bring her in thursday.
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  #70  
Old January 18th, 2009, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
I am so, so sorry to hear about your kitty . I would report him and would be telling my old vet about him too so he doesn't send anybody else to this "dental surgeon".
i will but want to wait to see what happens
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  #71  
Old January 18th, 2009, 10:14 AM
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protein/phosphorus

i found this website
http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canned.htm

if i am reading this right it looks like science diet senior chicken would be the best choice.

she is on Hills i.d. now which looks better than the k/d

i am mixed up and overwhelmed

oh the science diet is listed here http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm
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  #72  
Old January 18th, 2009, 11:22 AM
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Filing Complaint

It looks like i can't just write a letter and complain. It goes through a hearing prcoess.

http://www.ct.gov/dph/lib/dph/facili...umer_guide.pdf

I can't take time off from work for any hearing. I did get the dental xrays via email today and am going to take them to a real dentist for review. then i will write my letter.

My cat's name is simba
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  #73  
Old January 18th, 2009, 12:44 PM
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she is on hills i.d. food now thru the tube and is holding it down.
Good that she's holding it down, but I/D is a really crappy food. All the Hill's products are, but vets are blinded by the propaganda. Here are the ingredients for I/D:

Quote:
Water, Pork Liver, Pork By-Products, Chicken, Wheat Flour, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Corn Starch, Brewers Rice, Dried Beet Pulp, Chicken Liver Flavor, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Powdered Cellulose, ....
I'd like a vet to point out to me what ingredients in this food they think make it so great for a cat with "gastrointestinal disorders" (which is what it's "prescribed" for). No food should have pork liver as it's first ingredients. Wheat flour, cornstarch, brewers rice, beet pulp, powdered cellulose - completely inappropriate for ANY cat, never mind one that's recovering from illness and surgery. ARGH!!! It makes me so mad that vets have been so brainwashed by Hill's that they can't see how crappy this stuff is. There are much better options for you to feed Simba.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meow View Post
On the receipt for surgery it says Buprenex for the anthesthic. it also says ket-valo sedation. it also says isoflurane and propofol/ketamine/diazepam. all this is from the surgery receipt. then they put her on gabapentin.
The gabapentin caught my attention. Use of this drug in cats is fairly new and there isn't enough data on how safe it is. There was a WINN feline foundation study about a year ago but I have no idea what results they came up with. In theory, it should be fine because it has a wide safety margin in other species, but cats are their own unique little beings and should never be lumped in with the rest of us mere mortals. Here are some recent comments from a page about feline orofacial pain:

Quote:
There is little veterinary experience with the drug gabapentin (Neurontin®) and its adverse effects in cats are unknown, however, in people there is a very wide safety margin, and it has been used successfully in the treatment of human facial pain disorders (Schachter & Carrazana, 1997). A dose rate of 3 mg/kg PO SID has been suggested for the treatment of chronic pain in cats, and up to 10-30 mg/kg PO q 8h for refractory seizures (Plumb, 2005). Gabapentin (Neurontin®) is available in New Zealand as 100 mg capsules. As for phenobarbitone, attempts should be made to wean the cat off any alternative antiepileptic drug after 4 weeks if the clinical signs have resolved (Rusbridge, Feline Orofacial Pain Syndrome: Face and tongue mutilation syndrome in Burmese cats, 2008). Gabapentin is excreted unchanged by the kidneys, are required in renal compromise (NEURONTIN® data sheet, 2007), therefore renal parameters (serum biochemistry and urine specific gravity) should be checked prior to commencing treatment. An example of how gabapentin can be used in a treatment plan for cats with feline orofacial pain syndrome is described below in the recommendations for treatment. It is important to bear in mind that pharmacokinetic studies of gabapentin in cats is lacking, and although the safety margins are high in humans and rodents (NEURONTIN® data sheet, 2007); it is not certain whether this is the case in cats. Therefore treatment should be started using low doses, and owners should be warned of the potential for adverse effects. More information about gabapentin (Neurontin ®) is available at the Medsafe Website (see works cited).
Quote:
Originally Posted by meow View Post
she stayed at the vet for 2 weeks and he would not let me visit her so i have NO idea what the was done to her in that time.
I can't believe they didn't let you visit her during that time. That's outrageous and inhumane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meow View Post
I have no idea what any of these numbers mean
I'll leave the numbers for growler to comment on. The USG is probably the most important piece of the puzzle so hopefully you can get that value.
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Old January 18th, 2009, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by meow View Post
How do i do wellness in a feeding tube? How much food to how much water?
what size can of food?

thank you
What is the current recipe you are using with the I/D? It shouldn't be too drastically different. You just need it to be thin enough to get through the tube without clogging. Do you smoosh it through a sieve as well after blenderizing it? That's the best way to ensure there are no lumps that could get stuck.

Wellness is a really good food and it does have lower phosphorus than most foods (particularly the Turkey and Kitten flavours), plus it's readily available. The Innova Venison or Beef and the Felidae I mentioned above actually have even lower phosphorus levels, in case you want other options. There are some others too, like Precise in Triple Delight or Turkey or Chicken. It's important to look at more than just the phosphorus levels, the quality of the ingredients should also be a factor. Which is why even though the Science Diet choices might look good on paper, their poor quality ingredients take them out of the running. Here is a more up-to-date canned food listing showing phosphorus amounts: http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/CanFoodNew.html
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Old January 18th, 2009, 01:28 PM
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Sugarcatmom, I really don't think the vets read the ingredients on the food labels of what they sell. That is the only explanation I have for them to recommend this crap food.
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  #76  
Old January 18th, 2009, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
What is the current recipe you are using with the I/D? It shouldn't be too drastically different. You just need it to be thin enough to get through the tube without clogging. Do you smoosh it through a sieve as well after blenderizing it? That's the best way to ensure there are no lumps that could get stuck.

Wellness is a really good food and it does have lower phosphorus than most foods (particularly the Turkey and Kitten flavours), plus it's readily available. The Innova Venison or Beef and the Felidae I mentioned above actually have even lower phosphorus levels, in case you want other options. There are some others too, like Precise in Triple Delight or Turkey or Chicken. It's important to look at more than just the phosphorus levels, the quality of the ingredients should also be a factor. Which is why even though the Science Diet choices might look good on paper, their poor quality ingredients take them out of the running. Here is a more up-to-date canned food listing showing phosphorus amounts: http://www.geocities.com/jmpeerson/CanFoodNew.html
Thank you for the link. I do not see wellness on the list. Right now I take a 5.5 oz can and put 40ml of water in it. I put it in a magic bullet and make it blenderize for as long as possible so it become liquidy.
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  #77  
Old January 18th, 2009, 07:06 PM
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Sugarcatmom, I really don't think the vets read the ingredients on the food labels of what they sell. That is the only explanation I have for them to recommend this crap food.
simba did eat the wellness fish with her mouth 1x. she has not eaten it since. i am offering her everything under the sun at each feeding. i can't make rhyme of reason of it. of course she wants the crap: meow mix. she must be a junk food eater. now that i think of it i was feeding her L/D and i wonder if that made her urine not be concentrated. something i will have to check out.
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  #78  
Old January 18th, 2009, 07:18 PM
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Usg

I don't see a USG result. is that on a blood or urine test?
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  #79  
Old January 18th, 2009, 07:23 PM
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I can't believe they didn't let you visit her during that time. That's outrageous and inhumane.

I agree 100+%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was beside myself and had to take valium b/c i could not sleep or function. I was crying all the time. He said "leave her here or take her home." after all that surgery and no place else to take her i left her there. God only know what was given to her and what the was done to her in that time
You have no idea how anxious and upset I was. Finally i demanded to have her and took her to the ICU hospital. It is $1,000 a night for your cat to stay that the ICU hospital (seriously)......who can afford that????? well this is CT for ya...they think everyone is rich. they sent her home with me and showed me how to tube feed and said she would get better faster with her mommy

Believe me this "surgeon" has no idea who he messed with. Before I do anything I am going to a vet dentist for a 2nd opinion. This surgeon also lied to me and told me he was the only one in the state....he isn't.
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Last edited by meow; January 18th, 2009 at 07:24 PM. Reason: typos
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  #80  
Old January 18th, 2009, 07:37 PM
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What a piece of work. I hope you have lots of documentation because unfortunately, birds of a feather not only flock together but protect each other. Save every scrap of paper. Of course the anecdotal stuff will be equally important.
Barring someone from visiting a sick pet is inhuman.
It should be possible for you to get the word out, without landing yourself in legal hot water. Recommending the competition ain't against the law, is it?

Good luck to your kitty. I'm sure being at home with you will make all the difference.
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Old January 18th, 2009, 07:46 PM
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SugarCat Mom: I do not see a phosphorus level for wellness. i looked at the link you sent and also on their website. do you know. THANK YOU

Badgar: I don't think it is slandar if you are talking to one person and you state the facts. It is slander if it is send to many people or a public forum. I am told the other dentist doesn't like this guy either. Oh and yes I have saved everything including his stupid, rude emails
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  #82  
Old January 18th, 2009, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meow View Post
SugarCat Mom: I do not see a phosphorus level for wellness.
Yup, it's there, just down near the bottom of the page. But here you go just in case:

Beef & Chicken 226
Chicken 219
Chicken & Herring 303
Chicken & Lobster 264
Kitten (3 oz can) 216
Salmon & Trout 248
Sardines, Shrimp & Crab 293
Turkey 200
Turkey & Salmon 299

It's in mg per 100 Kcalories instead of % of DM like the KatKarma page is. 1% DM phosphorus is roughly equivalent to around 200-240 mg/100Kcal.

As for pursuing action against this vet, you might want to contact Stefani Olsen of The Toonces Project (scroll down to near the bottom for her email). She was involved in a legal battle with a vet after her cat was given a massive insulin overdose while under his care. She makes it her mission to expose veterinary negligence and might be able to give you some advice.
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  #83  
Old January 18th, 2009, 08:48 PM
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I don't see a USG result. is that on a blood or urine test?
That would be on the urine test results. It means urine specific gravity and indicates how well the kidneys are concentrating urine.
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  #84  
Old January 18th, 2009, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meow View Post
I do see my kitty drinking water at her drinkwell bowl 1-2x per day. she looks like she is drinking alot of water.
One thing I've found to be helpful to my vet is to measure the amount of water she is drinking in a week. My grrl has a Petmate water fountain & the see-through resevoir holds 2 cups (in addition to what is in the lower part of the bowl itself). The Drinkwell also has a resevoir so you can keep track of how long it takes Simba to drink the amount in there.

I make note of when I fill the resevoir then make note of how many days it takes for her to finish just what is in the resevoir - once I see that is empty I know how many days it takes for her to drink the 2 cups. Not scientific by any means but gives a good indication of how much she's drinking and when there is an increase/decrease.

Some info on Dental disease in relation to CRF: http://www.felinecrf.org/related_dis...ental_problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by meow View Post
On the receipt for surgery it says Buprenex for the anthesthic. it also says ket-valo sedation. it also says isoflurane and propofol/ketamine/diazepam. all this is from the surgery receipt. then they put her on gabapentin.

she stayed at the vet for 2 weeks and he would not let me visit her so i have NO idea what the was done to her in that time.

I have no idea what any of these numbers mean but here they are PRE-OP:

Urea Nitrogen 33 - normal range This is the BUN or sometimes called Urea Nitrogen
Creatine 1.9 - normal range
phosphorus 3.7 - normal
BUN 17 - normal range This is actually the BUN (Urea):Creatinine Ratio shows how much BUN there is relative to the creatinine level Normal range (depending on lab) is generally between 4 and 33
amylase 1625 - high - what is this?
Amylase is an enzyme produced by the pancreas and the intestinal tract, it helps to break down sugar. This can be partially influenced by the food she is eating.

Quote:
http://www.felinecrf.org/diagnosis.htm#amylase
Amylase (Amyl)

Amylase is a digestive enzyme made in the pancreas that breaks carbohydrates down into simple sugars. Because amylase is made by the pancreas, many vets seem to assume that an increase in this enzyme must indicate pancreatitis. Whilst this is often true for other species, it does not usually apply to cats, particularly CRF cats, because amylase is excreted by the kidneys, so it is by no means uncommon for it to be elevated in CRF. This is not usually a cause for concern - a value up to 2200 is not uncommon in CRF cats. However, if the level is much higher, around three times normal level, and your cat is showing other symptoms of pancreatitis combined with relatively low CRF values that seem to be out of line with how ill your cat is acting, then you might want to rule it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meow View Post
do you want to know anything else?? I'll post it.

2 weeks later after being held hostage at vet for 2 weeks:
Urea Nitrogen 32
Creatine 3.5 - high
BUN - 9 normal but low
hemaocrit - 21.4 low
I am amazed the vet wouldn't allow you to see her in the 2 weeks she was there . Given what the vet told you to do regarding getting her to eat at home when you brought her home (lock her in a crate & she'll eat eventually) I'm not surprised by the rise in creatinine here. Creatinine is a by product of muscle wasting, so if she was crated for the entire two weeks she wouldn't have been using her muscles running around, jumping on chairs etc.

Quote:
http://www.felinecrf.org/diagnosis.htm#creatinine
Cats with pancreatitis also sometimes have elevated creatinine levels. If your cat has relatively low creatinine (in the 2s) yet seems lethargic and far more ill than that mild level of kidney failure would suggest, I would consider pancreatitis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by meow View Post
Then I took her to the ICU hospital. They human scored blood work and said she was not anemic:

CREA a little high 3.0
PHOS normal 5.0
GLOB slightly high 4.6
everything else was normal

Two days ago they did a urine test. I don't have results b/c new vet called me on phone with them. urine was not concentrated. i think he said it was 1.something. he wants to re-check it when i bring her in thursday.
Technically, a cat is anaemic if his/her PCV or Haematocrit (HCT) level is below 30% (or with some labs, 25%), but you may not start to see any differences in your cat's behaviour until the level is closer to 20%.

There are two types of Anemia, regenerating and non-regenerating. There are a number of causes of anemia: inflammation or infection, gastro-intestinal bleeding, vit B deficiency etc. The healing process after dental surgery can also give a false anemia reading because the body is storing iron away rather than releasing it into the blood stream to lower the risk of bacterial infection from the surgery sites (bacteria feeds off of iron).


Quote:
http://www.felinecrf.org/diagnosis.htm#total_protein1
Globulin
This is another protein in blood, and is calculated from the values for albumin and total proteins i.e. globulin = total protein minus albumin. Globulins contain antibodies (immunoglobulins), so high levels may be seen when infection or inflammation is present.
The USG number is very important in determining what level of concentration the kidneys have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meow View Post
I don't see a USG result. is that on a blood or urine test?
USG = Urine specific gravity, may be listed simply as specific gravity - it will be on the urine test

Quote:
Originally Posted by meow View Post
SugarCat Mom: I do not see a phosphorus level for wellness.
I can give you this one:

CHICKEN
......................As fed Basis,............Dry Matter............g/Per 1000
............................%..................... Basis, %...............KCAL ME
M.E. KCAL/KG.....1411.10...................5253.54.......... ..........-

MOISTURE..........73.14........................-...........................-
PROTEIN.............12.04....................44.83 ......................85.32
FAT...................10.96.....................40 .80.....................77.67
CARBOHYDRATES...1.74.....................6.48..... .................12.33
FIBER..................0.27.....................1. 01........................1.91
ASH....................1.85......................6 .89......................13.11
CALCIUM..............0.36.....................1.34 ........................2.55
PHOSPHORUS........0.31.....................1.15........................2.20
POTASSIUM..........0.35.....................1.30.. ......................2.48
SODIUM...............0.09.....................0.34 ........................0.64


CHICKEN & BEEF

........................As fed Basis,..........Dry Matter...........g/Per 1000
.............................%.................... Basis, %...............KCAL ME
M.E. KCAL/KG.....1239.84.................5159.55............ ........-

MOISTURE..........75.97.........................-.....................-
PROTEIN.............11.11...................46.23. ...................89.61
FAT....................9.43....................39. 24....................76.06
CARBOHYDRATES..1.42......................5.91..... ...............11.45
FIBER..................0.26.....................1. 08......................2.10
ASH....................1.81.....................7. 53....................14.60
CALCIUM..............0.31....................1.29. .....................2.50
PHOSPHORUS........0.28....................1.17......................2.26
POTASSIUM..........0.31....................1.29... ...................2.50
SODIUM...............0.09....................0.37. .....................0.73


TURKEY
........................As fed Basis,...........Dry Matter............g/Per 1000
.............................%.................... Basis, %................KCAL ME
M.E. KCAL/KG.......1397.62..................5205.29......... .............-

MOISTURE............73.15.......................-..............................-
PROTEIN...............12.44...................46.3 3.......................89.01
FAT.....................10.63...................39 .59.......................76.06
CARBOHYDRATES....1.67.....................6.22.... ....................11.95
FIBER...................0.27.....................1 .01..........................1.93
ASH.....................1.84.....................6 .85.........................13.17
CALCIUM..............0.33.....................1.22 ...........................2.34
PHOSPHORUS........0.28.....................1.05...........................2.01
POTASSIUM..........0.32.....................1.18.. .........................2.27
SODIUM................0.08.....................0.3 0..........................0.58


KITTEN
........................As fed Basis,...........Dry Matter............g/Per 1000
.............................%.................... Basis, %................KCAL ME
M.E. KCAL/KG.......1426.60..................5303.35......... .............-

MOISTURE............73.10.......................-..............................-
PROTEIN...............11.49...................42.7 1........................80.54
FAT.....................11.30...................42 .01........................79.21
CARBOHYDRATES....1.99.....................7.40.... ....................13.95
FIBER...................0.25...................... 0.93.........................1.75
ASH.....................1.87...................... 6.95.......................13.11
CALCIUM..............0.45......................1.6 7.........................3.15
PHOSPHORUS........0.31......................1.15.........................2.17
POTASSIUM..........0.28......................1.04. ........................1.96
SODIUM...............0.25......................0.9 3.........................1.75

The phosphorus dry matter basis is what you what to look at, ideally it should be as close or lower than 1.00 as possible bearing in mind you want the best ingredients at the same time.
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Last edited by growler~GateKeeper; January 18th, 2009 at 09:46 PM.
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  #85  
Old January 19th, 2009, 09:08 AM
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meow meow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
Yup, it's there, just down near the bottom of the page. But here you go just in case:

Beef & Chicken 226
Chicken 219
Chicken & Herring 303
Chicken & Lobster 264
Kitten (3 oz can) 216
Salmon & Trout 248
Sardines, Shrimp & Crab 293
Turkey 200
Turkey & Salmon 299

It's in mg per 100 Kcalories instead of % of DM like the KatKarma page is. 1% DM phosphorus is roughly equivalent to around 200-240 mg/100Kcal.

As for pursuing action against this vet, you might want to contact Stefani Olsen of The Toonces Project (scroll down to near the bottom for her email). She was involved in a legal battle with a vet after her cat was given a massive insulin overdose while under his care. She makes it her mission to expose veterinary negligence and might be able to give you some advice.
thank you for the info and for the link!!!!! I just talked to new vet. he says kitty does not lower protein and the protein directly affects the kidneys. he said protein AND phosphorus need to be lowered. I am going to run it by ICU internist also. i made a call to a dentist to have records reviewed and give me his 2nd opinion )he doesn't need to see kitty). he is not in today but we will talk tomorrow. i am so upset
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  #86  
Old January 19th, 2009, 09:08 AM
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meow meow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
That would be on the urine test results. It means urine specific gravity and indicates how well the kidneys are concentrating urine.
ok i will ask for copy when i go today
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  #87  
Old January 19th, 2009, 09:12 AM
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meow meow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growler View Post
One thing I've found to be helpful to my vet is to measure the amount of water she is drinking in a week. My grrl has a Petmate water fountain & the see-through resevoir holds 2 cups (in addition to what is in the lower part of the bowl itself). The Drinkwell also has a resevoir so you can keep track of how long it takes Simba to drink the amount in there.

I make note of when I fill the resevoir then make note of how many days it takes for her to finish just what is in the resevoir - once I see that is empty I know how many days it takes for her to drink the 2 cups. Not scientific by any means but gives a good indication of how much she's drinking and when there is an increase/decrease.

Some info on Dental disease in relation to CRF: http://www.felinecrf.org/related_dis...ental_problems



Amylase is an enzyme produced by the pancreas and the intestinal tract, it helps to break down sugar. This can be partially influenced by the food she is eating.






I am amazed the vet wouldn't allow you to see her in the 2 weeks she was there . Given what the vet told you to do regarding getting her to eat at home when you brought her home (lock her in a crate & she'll eat eventually) I'm not surprised by the rise in creatinine here. Creatinine is a by product of muscle wasting, so if she was crated for the entire two weeks she wouldn't have been using her muscles running around, jumping on chairs etc.





Technically, a cat is anaemic if his/her PCV or Haematocrit (HCT) level is below 30% (or with some labs, 25%), but you may not start to see any differences in your cat's behaviour until the level is closer to 20%.

There are two types of Anemia, regenerating and non-regenerating. There are a number of causes of anemia: inflammation or infection, gastro-intestinal bleeding, vit B deficiency etc. The healing process after dental surgery can also give a false anemia reading because the body is storing iron away rather than releasing it into the blood stream to lower the risk of bacterial infection from the surgery sites (bacteria feeds off of iron).




The USG number is very important in determining what level of concentration the kidneys have.



USG = Urine specific gravity, may be listed simply as specific gravity - it will be on the urine test



I can give you this one:

CHICKEN
......................As fed Basis,............Dry Matter............g/Per 1000
............................%..................... Basis, %...............KCAL ME
M.E. KCAL/KG.....1411.10...................5253.54.......... ..........-

MOISTURE..........73.14........................-...........................-
PROTEIN.............12.04....................44.83 ......................85.32
FAT...................10.96.....................40 .80.....................77.67
CARBOHYDRATES...1.74.....................6.48..... .................12.33
FIBER..................0.27.....................1. 01........................1.91
ASH....................1.85......................6 .89......................13.11
CALCIUM..............0.36.....................1.34 ........................2.55
PHOSPHORUS........0.31.....................1.15........................2.20
POTASSIUM..........0.35.....................1.30.. ......................2.48
SODIUM...............0.09.....................0.34 ........................0.64


CHICKEN & BEEF

........................As fed Basis,..........Dry Matter...........g/Per 1000
.............................%.................... Basis, %...............KCAL ME
M.E. KCAL/KG.....1239.84.................5159.55............ ........-

MOISTURE..........75.97.........................-.....................-
PROTEIN.............11.11...................46.23. ...................89.61
FAT....................9.43....................39. 24....................76.06
CARBOHYDRATES..1.42......................5.91..... ...............11.45
FIBER..................0.26.....................1. 08......................2.10
ASH....................1.81.....................7. 53....................14.60
CALCIUM..............0.31....................1.29. .....................2.50
PHOSPHORUS........0.28....................1.17......................2.26
POTASSIUM..........0.31....................1.29... ...................2.50
SODIUM...............0.09....................0.37. .....................0.73


TURKEY
........................As fed Basis,...........Dry Matter............g/Per 1000
.............................%.................... Basis, %................KCAL ME
M.E. KCAL/KG.......1397.62..................5205.29......... .............-

MOISTURE............73.15.......................-..............................-
PROTEIN...............12.44...................46.3 3.......................89.01
FAT.....................10.63...................39 .59.......................76.06
CARBOHYDRATES....1.67.....................6.22.... ....................11.95
FIBER...................0.27.....................1 .01..........................1.93
ASH.....................1.84.....................6 .85.........................13.17
CALCIUM..............0.33.....................1.22 ...........................2.34
PHOSPHORUS........0.28.....................1.05...........................2.01
POTASSIUM..........0.32.....................1.18.. .........................2.27
SODIUM................0.08.....................0.3 0..........................0.58


KITTEN
........................As fed Basis,...........Dry Matter............g/Per 1000
.............................%.................... Basis, %................KCAL ME
M.E. KCAL/KG.......1426.60..................5303.35......... .............-

MOISTURE............73.10.......................-..............................-
PROTEIN...............11.49...................42.7 1........................80.54
FAT.....................11.30...................42 .01........................79.21
CARBOHYDRATES....1.99.....................7.40.... ....................13.95
FIBER...................0.25...................... 0.93.........................1.75
ASH.....................1.87...................... 6.95.......................13.11
CALCIUM..............0.45......................1.6 7.........................3.15
PHOSPHORUS........0.31......................1.15.........................2.17
POTASSIUM..........0.28......................1.04. ........................1.96
SODIUM...............0.25......................0.9 3.........................1.75

The phosphorus dry matter basis is what you what to look at, ideally it should be as close or lower than 1.00 as possible bearing in mind you want the best ingredients at the same time.
thank you for all this helpful advice. kitty threw up last night and missed the litter box by 6" this morning. i didn't see it happen so i don't know if she couldn't get into the box b/c of the cone. i am not getting a good feeling about her recover. I keep telling her she is getting better and i need her here with me.
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  #88  
Old January 19th, 2009, 09:23 AM
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I'm sure it was the collar that prevented her from climbing into the litterbox, plus the meds are probably making her feel woozy. Hang in there, meow, focus on the small victories, it will get better, she's come this far, hasn't she?
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  #89  
Old January 19th, 2009, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badger View Post
I'm sure it was the collar that prevented her from climbing into the litterbox, plus the meds are probably making her feel woozy. Hang in there, meow, focus on the small victories, it will get better, she's come this far, hasn't she?
thank you so much. she has. i just placed 2 calls to 2 dentists to see if they will do a review of what was done to tell me if it was even needed. we did a pancreas test and are waiting for results.
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  #90  
Old January 19th, 2009, 12:43 PM
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sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meow View Post
he said protein AND phosphorus need to be lowered.
Nope, he's wrong. The thing is, vets really don't know a great deal about feline nutrition and when they say the protein needs to be lowered for CRF kitties, they're basing that on an ancient study done on RATS. Rats are not cats. I know it's confusing to hear one thing from strangers on some message board and completely the opposite from a vet, who is assumed to be knowledgable about this stuff, but I would bet money on the fact that I've done more reading and research on this subject in the last 6 years than this vet ever has. Plus, I don't have a vested interest in selling a product. Nor do I have sales reps for these products coming to my home and bombarding me with their dubious propaganda.
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