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  #31  
Old August 15th, 2006, 11:26 AM
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no, they do not bake *any* of their products anymore... sorry :sad:
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  #32  
Old August 15th, 2006, 11:33 AM
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Wellness

I've been reading on another dog food forum that some people are saying Wellness is now causing kidney problems. Someone has emailed Wellness with their concerns but have not received a reply yet. For any of you that want to read the comments the website is:

http://www.groups.yahoo.com/group/Co...od_Comparison/
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  #33  
Old August 15th, 2006, 11:46 AM
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Ok, maybe I'm just numb today, but why is extrusion so bad? The high temps? From what I've read, sometimes extrusion is just pressure and not high temps... How would they have made the kibble before baking without extruding? I can't imagine a factory of people rolling them into little balls.
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  #34  
Old August 17th, 2006, 08:52 PM
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I always thought extrusion was like pumping out spaghetti pieces.. That it was shaping nothing more.......
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  #35  
Old August 17th, 2006, 11:44 PM
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from http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/ar...id=169&aid=375

Quote:
How is dry pet food manufactured?
Dry foods are most commonly made in a process called extrusion. However, they can also be baked or pelleted. In the extrusion process, raw materials are first ground to the correct particle size (usually the consistency of coarse flour). Grinding increases the availability of nutrients, as well as the ease with which they are processed. The ground ingredients are then mixed to create a consistent product, ensuring that essential nutrients are correctly balanced in each individual piece of the finished product.
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The mixed dry ground materials are then extruded, a process that includes mixing, kneading, proofing (rising), shaping, rising again, and slicing. The dry mix is first preconditioned to start the gelatinization of the starches. The preconditioner very accurately measures the amount of the dry mix and blends it with the measured liquid portion that can include fat, meat products, additional water, and steam. This wet mix stays in the preconditioner for about 45 seconds. While in the preconditioner, the starch is cooked about 25%. The preconditioned food then moves to an extruder, a cylindrical multi-segmented barrel that propels, mixes, and further cooks the material, and then forces it through a die where it is cut to the desired length. The product moving through the extruder produces its own friction and heat, which then cooks the mix. The speed and friction levels can be varied depending on the formula, to ensure that the product is cooked at the correct temperature for the right length of time.

The newly formed, soft and spongy kibbles are then transferred from the extruder to the dryer where additional moisture is removed. Most kibble takes about 15 minutes to dry properly. If kibble is dried too quickly or at too high a temperature, it will be more fragile and break during handling.

The kibble then goes through a cooling process of around 7 minutes. If the kibble is too hot when it leaves the dryer and is packaged before it cools, condensation will develop, which will encourage the growth of mold or bacteria in the package.

Enrobing, the last step in the manufacture of dry pet foods, entails the addition of either liquids or powders to the outer surface of the kibble. Fat and flavor enhancers are usually added at this stage. Fat is not usually added in the mixing stage because it can disrupt starch gelatinization. Fat and flavor enhancers greatly improve taste and palatability, and are most effective when applied to the outside of the kibble.
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  #36  
Old August 17th, 2006, 11:51 PM
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What is bad about that?
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  #37  
Old August 18th, 2006, 12:16 AM
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i dunno!
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  #38  
Old August 18th, 2006, 12:22 AM
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lol I'd almost rather that than some 12 year old with blistered feet rolling my doggies' kibble into little balls.

I think people confuse extrusion with rendering.
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  #39  
Old August 18th, 2006, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
I think people confuse extrusion with rendering.
maybe! although all the "meat meal" in kibble IS rendered....
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  #40  
Old August 18th, 2006, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
She also said that corn was “demonized” by some companies (i.e. Nutro especially) however it is safe and non irritating to the dogs stomach so, it is not bad for the dogs. Oatmeal for example makes dogs fart …lol; and it is hard to digest. Apparently corn and brown rice are the best carbs to put in dog kibble.
She has proved she has no clue,

Here is some of the Nutro formulas, I think I see corn list in just a few... I wonder why Nutro would be demonizing corn and using it at the same time

Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy -
Quote:
Chicken Meal, Ground Rice, Corn Gluten Meal
Natural Choice High Energy -
Quote:
Chicken Meal, Ground Rice, Corn Gluten Meal,
Natural Choice Large Breed Adult -
Quote:
Chicken Meal, Ground Rice, Rice Flour, Corn Gluten Meal
Natural Choice Large Breed Weight Management -
Quote:
Ground Rice, Chicken Meal, Rice Bran, Wheat Flour, Dried Beet Pulp, Corn Gluten Meal,
Natural Choice Large Breed Senior -
Quote:
Rice Flour, Chicken Meal, Rice Bran, Wheat Flour, Corn Gluten Meal,
MAX Puppy -
Quote:
Chicken Meal, Corn Gluten Meal
MAX Large Breed Puppy -
Quote:
Beef Meal, Ground Rice, Corn Gluten Meal,
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  #41  
Old August 18th, 2006, 09:30 AM
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My puppy hated Wellness. She refused to eat it. After three days I changed to Solid Gold Hunden en Flocken, she loved it. But after almost a year of eating the same food and same flavour I have switched to Natural Blend, it is holistic, but cheaper. She likes this brand more than the prev. brands. I'm sticking to this.

Remember to post pics of your pup when she arrives!
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  #42  
Old August 18th, 2006, 11:50 AM
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Rivers, if that one stops working, you can try the Just A Wee Bit... It's supposed to be more dense so you feed even less (made for little active doggies).
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  #43  
Old August 18th, 2006, 04:14 PM
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Is Natural Blend the one made by Medi-cal (Techni-cal) ?
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  #44  
Old August 18th, 2006, 04:16 PM
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"Sensible Choice® is a registered trademark of Royal Canin USA"
http://www.naturalblend.com/SCHPRD.HTM
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  #45  
Old August 18th, 2006, 04:18 PM
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k, call me a grain moron, but what is "flax"? I've seen flaxseed, flax oil, but what is just plain "flax"?
(They have it in their "adult dog food")
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  #46  
Old August 18th, 2006, 05:34 PM
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I found it (Canadian):

http://www.royalcanin.ca/products/tc/nb/adult_en.php


Ingredients:Chicken meal, whole brown rice, pearl barley, chicken fat (naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract and citric acid), brewers rice, chicken, whole oatmeal, natural flavours, beet pulp, salmon meal, dried eggs, tomato pomace, potassium chloride, whole flaxseed, salt, apple pomace, carrot pomace, brewers yeast, whole alfalfa, calcium carbonate, canola oil, chicory extract, whole spinach, choline chloride, salmon oil, Vitamins (vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, vitamin C, inositol, d-calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, beta-carotene, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, vitamin K, biotin, vitamin B12), Minerals (zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, copper sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), whole broccoli, whole sweet potatoes, whole apples, whole blueberries, whole pears, whole bananas, dried kelp, yucca shidigera extract, cinnamon, turmeric, capsicum, paprika, garlic, chamomile, dandelion, probiotics (dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus lactis fermentation product, dried Bifidobacterium bifidum fermentation product, dried Enterococcus diacetylactis fermentation product).

The Vitamin K listed is menadione sodium bisulfite complex. This is one of the companies I emailed awhile ago and they insisted it wasn't a bad ingredient. If I ever get time they're on my list of Canadian companies to email again.

It also has citric acid as one of the preservatives in case you have a concern with bloat.
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  #47  
Old August 18th, 2006, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prin
k, call me a grain moron, but what is "flax"? I've seen flaxseed, flax oil, but what is just plain "flax"?
(They have it in their "adult dog food")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flax

Maybe they just say "flax" in the U.S.
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  #48  
Old August 18th, 2006, 05:39 PM
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Yeah, but do they really throw the whole plant in there?

My dog, how little salmon oil must they put in there so that it ends up right before the vitamins? Wow.

And most of the ingredients are after the fat (meaning they don't even matter).

(oh, and there's more menadione than broccoli, blueberries and bananas.. Interesting choice, Royal canin... )
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  #49  
Old August 18th, 2006, 05:59 PM
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Yeah, I always thought the vitamins and minerals were supposed to be the last ingredients on the list. And the tomato pomace, apple pomace and carrot pomace come before some of the whole veggies and fruit.
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  #50  
Old August 18th, 2006, 06:06 PM
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clever marketing bastids, ain't they?
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  #51  
Old August 18th, 2006, 06:34 PM
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Right on. And there's lots more like them. :sad:
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  #52  
Old August 18th, 2006, 07:35 PM
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Ok, tomato pomace is the skin, right?
According to Natura:
Quote:
Tomato pomace is the mixture of tomato skins, pulp, and crushed seeds.

This is an inexpensive byproduct with the potential for pesticide residues in discarded tomato skins, which are the largest component of tomato pomace.
So what.... the... hey... is CARROT pomace?

Maybe they try to be sneaky and group all of the vitamins together so it looks bigger? Kinda dumb, considering the it's the other ingredients that should be jacked up...
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  #53  
Old August 18th, 2006, 10:00 PM
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This would be why I've never looked at a bag of royal canin seriously.. I don't see it as all that much different than iams, eukanuba or whatever.. They just have better marketing and have suckered people in with the food line of foods for specific breeds..
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  #54  
Old August 18th, 2006, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
So what.... the... hey... is CARROT pomace?
The peelings?



When you buy a can of crushed tomatoes aren't you getting the pulp and the seeds in it?
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  #55  
Old August 18th, 2006, 10:29 PM
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Yeah, but don't they take the skins out?
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  #56  
Old August 18th, 2006, 10:52 PM
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Yep, it's just the pulp and seeds as far as I know. So if tomato pomace is:

Quote:
Tomato pomace is the mixture of tomato skins, pulp, and crushed seeds.

This is an inexpensive byproduct with the potential for pesticide residues in discarded tomato skins, which are the largest component of tomato pomace.
Isn't that the whole tomato? When I eat a tomato I eat the skin but I do wash it first so therefore would get rid of any pesticide residue.

So, the way I look at it, the only bad thing in tomato pomace is the skin and only because of the pesticide residue.
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  #57  
Old August 18th, 2006, 10:57 PM
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Yeah, I never thought it was bad. It's way better than beet pulp, if you need a stool hardener. I just used that definition to ask what they hey carrot pomace is... It's got no skin, no pulp and no seeds.

(It is mostly skins though)
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  #58  
Old August 18th, 2006, 11:09 PM
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So if Natural Blend took out the menadione, beet pulp, brewers rice, brewers yeast, apple pomace and carrot pomace, and put all the fruits and veggies ahead of the vitamins and minerals (which means they'd have to increase the amounts), they have not a bad food.

Oh, and also explain what the natural flavours are.

Last edited by rainbow; August 18th, 2006 at 11:23 PM.
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  #59  
Old August 18th, 2006, 11:58 PM
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Exactly. Here's hopin'.
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  #60  
Old August 19th, 2006, 12:11 AM
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Makes me think the definition is leaving something out.. Since grape pomace is what is left after grape juice is made.. So not much.. And apple pomace is just as tasty (and in this food)..

Quote:
Apple pomace is the waste product from juicing apples.

Apple pomace has low nutritional value, and is mainly used as an inexpensive source of fiber.
Fiber in Natura products comes from whole ground grains, fruits and vegetables which supply a good balance of soluble and insoluble fiber
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