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View Poll Results: Should Whipping be allowed on a horse?
Whipping is OK 1 6.25%
whipping better be used only on cream 4 25.00%
no whipping here 2 12.50%
only use whip in a leather bar... 9 56.25%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old May 1st, 2011, 09:44 PM
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Shaykeija Shaykeija is offline
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To Whip or Not?

Got a question for you horsey people. I got in a heated discussion tonight with a newbie horse owner. I guess their horse charged them so they decided to get a whip. Went back into the paddock and showed their horse who was boss. I am thinking, this horse is now getting a beating and has no clue why? Why would anyone use a whip? Other then the wow factor of the crack sound it makes, I see no use for one. A long time ago I saw an abused horse with whip scars all over it. Poor thing. Thoughts?
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Old May 1st, 2011, 09:53 PM
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hedgiemama hedgiemama is offline
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I definitely dont think that what the person did was right. Although i can see a use for in riding, to get the horse to move forward or something along the line,although i dont personally use one when i ride as i only do some pleasure. But going out and whipping the horse after the fact just doesnt seem right with me.
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Old May 1st, 2011, 09:55 PM
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Love your poll options .

Have your friends even read a book on horses...like do they know anything at all about them? Poor horse .
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Old May 1st, 2011, 10:57 PM
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OMG, that is horrendous .....wth is wrong with people?

I imagine it would be the same type of person that would beat their kids.


Oh, and I loved your poll options as well .....so I voted for the whipping in a leather bar but I would use whipping cream too.
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Old May 1st, 2011, 11:03 PM
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Gail P Gail P is offline
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What Hedgiemama said. I've had horses since 1986 and rode for about 8 years before that. (ok, now I'm admitting my age ) Crops, dressage whips, lunge whips, buggy whips...all have their place and proper use.

Some never even touch the horse eg. a lunge whip is cracked to encourage forward movement while lunging (working a horse in a circle on a long line) and just changing body position and the position of the lunge whip is also a signal to the horse to reverse. Some just lightly touch the horse to signal a specific cue (ie. dressage)

None should ever be used to go out and punish a horse and teach him/her who's boss as you've described.

ETA: a charging horse is dangerous and does need a lesson in manners, but not that way. If a whip were to be involved is should be already in hand, prepared to be used if the horse is acting dangerously. It would have to be applied immediately to be connected to the undesirable behaviour and should be a quick correction, not used in anger after the fact. The truth is, most newbie horse owners do not have the experience to deal with that kind of behaviour and should be seeking help if the horse is dangerous.
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Last edited by Gail P; May 1st, 2011 at 11:16 PM.
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Old May 1st, 2011, 11:25 PM
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Goldfields Goldfields is offline
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I don't know so much, Gail. I still have the scar on my arm from a bite from a big pony that used to charge people and bite them. Not the only horse I have seen like it, another was a palomino hack that was a terrorist in the stables at our big Royal shows, wanting to bite everyone who walked past, while another was a racehorse. Now, how are you , any of you, going to stop a determined and nasty horse? If those people walk into the paddock in 5 minutes time and that horse attacks again, what should they do? I mean after they pick themselves up or make it let go of them? Oh, just remembered another one, a galloway mare that had the staff at the stud I worked at scared stiff of her. One person would feed her carrots while another bolted over to her shelter shed and put the feed in, they were too scared to just feed her normally. These horses have no respect whatsoever once they start meaning to do harm. BUT, seeing that Erykah is talking about a newbie owner, my first question must be did the horse really charge them, or instead canter up wanting to be fed, or seeking some attention? If so, and they hit or startled it for that, then I'd like to take the whip to them,. not the horse.
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Old May 1st, 2011, 11:45 PM
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Gail P Gail P is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfields View Post
I don't know so much, Gail. I still have the scar on my arm from a bite from a big pony that used to charge people and bite them. Not the only horse I have seen like it, another was a palomino hack that was a terrorist in the stables at our big Royal shows, wanting to bite everyone who walked past, while another was a racehorse. Now, how are you , any of you, going to stop a determined and nasty horse? If those people walk into the paddock in 5 minutes time and that horse attacks again, what should they do? I mean after they pick themselves up or make it let go of them? Oh, just remembered another one, a galloway mare that had the staff at the stud I worked at scared stiff of her. One person would feed her carrots while another bolted over to her shelter shed and put the feed in, they were too scared to just feed her normally. These horses have no respect whatsoever once they start meaning to do harm. BUT, seeing that Erykah is talking about a newbie owner, my first question must be did the horse really charge them, or instead canter up wanting to be fed, or seeking some attention? If so, and they hit or startled it for that, then I'd like to take the whip to them,. not the horse.
Even with disrespectful or nasty horses, using a whip of any kind to beat them after the fact isn't going to teach them anything. Other options? in the case of a horse hanging it's head out of a stall and biting anyone that walks past, instead of having an open doorway have one with bars to the horse can't hang it's head out. No more biting passer-bys. Out in an open field or paddock...if a horse is that bad, I wouldn't enter without carrying a buggy whip or lunge whip to use to make the horse keep it's distance. I used to board a horse that seemed to like rushing past me when my hands were full carrying feed buckets or bales of hay. And he'd encourage another one to do it too...the pair of them would rush up behind me, split and run one on each side of me bucking and kicking. Lucky I didn't get my head taken off. I simply started carrying a buggy whip when going out to feed and they respected my space. If necessary for my own safety I would not have hesitated to use it but these weren't mean horses, they were just acting stupid so just carrying it was enough. One of those horses can be quite pushy and I've tapped the whip on his chest to make him back up out of my space...I've also use it to rub and scratch them while they're eating so they learn that it isn't something to be scared of, merely respected when carried a certain way.

As you said, it's about respect, or lack of it. Respect doesn't just happen, it has to be taught. Beating doesn't garner respect, only fear.
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Old May 2nd, 2011, 12:07 AM
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What this person did is wrong. First of all I don't believe in beating any animal, but by the time they attempted to correct what he/she did (if they read him correctly) was too late. He/she has no idea what they did wrong, all the horse will learn here is to fear his owner/people.

I don't know a lot about horses although I did a lot of riding when I was younger and reallllly miss it. Miss everything about it, I think I even miss the grooming and getting ready for a ride more than the actual riding part.

I remember two horses from my lesson days in particular. One was a grump that liked to bite and kick anyone that tried to groom him and get him ready for a ride. He was quick and somehow managed to kick his front legs out to the side to get you. People would always have a crop in hand when they would go near him, ready to give him a smack....no wonder he was grumpy, people were mean. Well one day it was my turn to ride him and get him ready, I did what I always did, went in blind as if I knew nothing about him. I would quietly talk to him, let him sniff me and always kept a hand on him so he new where I was. It went well, got him out of his stall and into the cross ties. He started to get a little on guard so my mom who always came with me, stood infront of him and gently talked to him, while stroking his face and rubbing his ears. He became so relxed he looked as if he were about to fall asleep. We had a great ride and when we were done and getting him ready to go back to his stall he was nice and relaxed.

A little love, tender hand and patience goes a long way.

Another horse was owned by two young girls who smacked him around all the time. If he was fidgity when putting the bridle on, they smacked him(he then hated being bridled), smacked him for all sorts of stupid things. It got so he would hide in the back of his stall and wouldn't look at you when you went it...guess he was waiting to get smacked for breathing. I did my usual thing. They happend to be there and told me to be "careful, he's mean". Umm no your mean, I had no problem getting him ready, putting his bridle on which he hated was a breeze. Again I am no expert in anyway with horses, I just feel that being kind and paying attention to their body language goes a long way. I loved that horse and was lucky enough to get ride him almost every time I had a lesson.

I have had a few good painful bites from horses over the years, been stepped on, thrown off and almost trampled. I have to say all of it was my own fault, when I would look back to why these things happend, well I just wasn't paying attention. I am sure that there are a few horses out there that can be a jerk and try to show everyone how big they are, but I am sure there are ways to deal with it without beating the crap out of them. Whips/crops have their place like menitoned but they are tools and need to be use in a proper humane manner.

Again I don't know a lot, just from what I have seen first hand and experienced.

Gee I sure miss being around horses, they are just so amazing. Sorry this was so long, in a rambling on mood.
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Old May 2nd, 2011, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfields View Post
These horses have no respect whatsoever once they start meaning to do harm. BUT, seeing that Erykah is talking about a newbie owner, my first question must be did the horse really charge them, or instead canter up wanting to be fed, or seeking some attention? If so, and they hit or startled it for that, then I'd like to take the whip to them,. not the horse.
It's Shaykeija that posted about the newbie owner, not Erykah.

Erykah does have horses though so she should have some insight to share with us as well.

I still think it is horrendous and unnecessary though.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 03:28 PM
pattymac pattymac is offline
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I've been lucky with my horses, they were all pretty respectful of people and other than the odd head butt because the carrots weren't coming fast enough, I've never been bit, kicked or purposely dumped. Got stepped on a couple of times but that was my fault and fell off a few times but again either my horse spooked and I wasn't sitting solid and you know horse goes one way and you go the other!! Once in awhile I'd carry a crop but rarely used it, I always found I'd drop it and then have to go hunting for it after.

Horses can be pretty scary critters and a mean one would be downright dangerous. Still you know that's not an excuse for a whipping. I've gone out to bring in horses and if you happen to be carrying the good stuff then a bunch of horses coming at a run towards you can be pretty intimidating! Takes a bit of resolve to stand your ground! I also learned that they can pretty much stop on a dime and won't purposely run into you. I'm with you Erykah on the whirlling around and kicking out, that's just plain disrespect. Don't mind if they're a ways away but when they do it when you're still standing there that's majorly dangerous. In some it's just high spirits and a yahoooo we're free but sometimes not and I'd be inclined to act the same way with a good crack across the butt. I would never, ever hit a horse anywhere around it's face. My niece's old horse was a huge boy, 17 hands and sometimes he would get pushy and try to crowd you, he'd get a smack to the chest and STOP IT! Then he'd behave, but it wasn't a whipping usually just a smack to make some noise.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pattymac View Post
I've been lucky with my horses, they were all pretty respectful of people and other than the odd head butt because the carrots weren't coming fast enough, I've never been bit, kicked or purposely dumped. Got stepped on a couple of times but that was my fault and fell off a few times but again either my horse spooked and I wasn't sitting solid and you know horse goes one way and you go the other!! Once in awhile I'd carry a crop but rarely used it, I always found I'd drop it and then have to go hunting for it after.

.
Gee, you must have had nice horses, pattymac. I have been bit, kicked, bucked off , knocked out by a horse striking me with its hoof, fallen with, fallen on when one reared over on top of me, and bolted with. All good fun, the horse riding, thrills and spills included. I didn't enjoy having bones broken in my foot by a racehorse stepping back onto it(I was brushing his tail), then pivotting as the boss led him out the door.
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Old September 27th, 2011, 12:40 AM
pattymac pattymac is offline
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yup consider myself very lucky when it came to horses! I did break my arm once, like an ass I put my arm out to stop myself...duh! Slid off my pony riding bareback..she was the worst bareback, round like a barrel and a trot that was almost impossible to sit, so ya she turned a little too fast and I was on the ground.
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Old September 27th, 2011, 11:50 AM
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Same thing happened when I let a neighbor's child have a ride on a little bay mare. Fortunately I had told her to ask her mnother if it was okay first because same thing happened, Beauty started to trot, changed direction and the child fell off, fracturing her elbow. I did feel pretty terrible about that.
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Old October 22nd, 2011, 05:42 PM
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I think to beat a horse "after" they've done something wrong is counter productive. they likely dont have any idea why they are being beaten , and beating a horse is never a good solution anyways. I believie to "correct" a horse with a slight sting of a whip "if nessecary" IMMEDITALY during bad/unwanted behavior is ok. But only if absolutly nessecary and nothing else works.
For instance my mother in law and father in law have mini horses and while not the same as large breed horses, let me tell you these little doodies can pack a whallop too. They almost kicked my mother in law to death one time..fighting over treats .
Anyways...they have a few that like to "bite" for the "fun" of it.
They dont like to "correct" them for thier behavior as they kind of treat them like "pets and baby them". (to an extent anyways).
Well I got tired of being bitten by this one paticular little mare ...and I'd tried, pinching her lip, shoving her head away, grabbing her ear, kneeing her, nothing worked. one day..I'd had enough..as OTHER than the biting , she was actually seeking attention from me...I tried all the others and she continued to bite...so she goes to bite again and I took her, held her in a headlock, and smacked her across her nose (HARD) and said "NO". I let go...she kinda shook her head...smacked her lips...went to bite me again..and I did the same thing.
She shook her head...smacked her lips...and walked away. A few mins later..she comes back over and starts rubbing her head on my arm asking for attention. I start to pet her..she goes to nibble....and then it was like "OH YEAH"..and STOPPED dead in her tracks.
She has NEVER bit me again.

I hated to do it.
But...she learned.
She still bites everyone else.
But she dosent bite me any longer.


I've a "little' experience with horses, although more so on a juvinile level. I barrel raced a few years on a friends mare. She was a pretty quick , and slightly tempermental thing. But found a "peppermint stick" (those soft ones) would cure most of her ill moods. She was called quick silver and she delighted me to no end. She was just a quarter horse, no special breeding, or ribbons. But I'd have given my left leg to have her for my own. I had one good spill into a barrel (my fault) and cracked a rib (lucky it wasnt my head)..and it scared me pretty good. I decided to "unborrow" her the next year..and then I moved out of state and stopped riding alltogether for awhile. She only "bit" me once, but it was my finger (my fault for not realising we'd got to the end of the peppermint stick)
Then after a few 'non riding" years
My last "riding " experince was rather funny. (or not ..depending on your humor). My father in law got a regular sized horse to keep all his mini horses company. Gypsy (oh boy that shouldve clued me in tobegin with)...was a pretty thing. but she had a look in her eye that I didnt trust all to well. Plus I hadnt been on a horse period in about six years. But..me being stubborn. I decide. I'm going to ride her.
First ride was "rather" successful. I managed to stay "on" and get her to walk around.
Second time..."not so much" ..and she decided she WAS NOT going to the back of the pasture. I decided she WAS.and the FIGHT was on.
I was determined. And so was she.
She bucked, she kicked, she threw the biggest horse fit you've ever seen, all while I'm trying to STAY ON her...and so she decided...well I'll just RUN then.
So..I was like..ok..run..but your RUNNING to the back of the pasture then.
And she did. BOY DID SHE.
So...we get to the end of the pasture. I think.."sucess...I won".
Ha..boy did she EVER get the last laugh.
She stands there panting, and I was unpreparred (and completely "green" in horse language ) as she just all of a sudden BOLTS....I did my best...but within mins I was on her side...and hit the ground and rolled. I hit so hard that my husband heard me all the way at the other end of the pasture.
It took the breath right out of me..and I knew instantly that at least one rib was cracked. (later found out at least three were for sure..OWIE)
Gypsy...stopped (eventually) and came back to see about me. (well , I'll give her points on that one). and I was determined..to get back up on her. As I learned as a child..one never lets the horse know they bested you.
I got back on her. Tears down my face, unable to breathe...barely able to hold on, praying she'd just walk. (thank god she did)..and we made it back to the barn.
I got off her.
The next passengers she had (another day), she bucked off and broke one of thier arms.
She was sold , to someone with more "horse sense, and patience" and we decided "gypsy was TOO MUCH horse " for us. She never bit, or kicked unpassengerd...but everytime someone rode her she threw a fit, bucked, bolted, ect....was just "spooky" i guess.

I also was "ran" over by a horse at age eight. totally my fault. I always fed my grandfathers horses "carrots" and and one day decided to stand in the middle of two of the studs...instead of stay behind the fence (like id been told too). I got trampled over. Had a good horse hoof bruise on my back..and scared the wits outta me. But I was "ok".
It taught me to "stay behind the fence" on the "big boys".
I also got thrown when on one of the studs, a train went by and "bud" spooked. Thankfully my grandfather was right there, and caught me before I hit the ground. He was over 20 hands high..I'd have likely cracked my neck as I was only five. I cried and didnt want to get back on. he made me. I'm so glad he did..as I've loved horses ever since.

anyways..thats my little bit of horse experince. I dont know what I'd do if I encountered a "mean" horse. Probably "run" lol
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