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  #1  
Old February 24th, 2007, 11:14 PM
Emmalou Emmalou is offline
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Timberwolf Change

I have been browsing your forum for a few months now and really like it. A lot of you seem very involved and knowledgeable. I decided it was time to jump in a join the fun!

I started feeding my dog Timberwolf a few months ago. She really likes it and seems to do well on it. I heard though that they have changed processing plants and am a little worried about a change in formula or what effect the manufacturing change will have on the food. Have any of you Timberwolf feeders received any of the new food?
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  #2  
Old February 24th, 2007, 11:17 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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They were using the Diamond plants to make their foods, so I'm guessing after the massive recall, TO decided to jump ship.. Not sure what effect it will have on the food or if there are new developments...

Oh and welcome to the board!!
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Old February 24th, 2007, 11:41 PM
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gypsy_girl gypsy_girl is offline
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Welcome! It will be interesting to see if there is a difference. Not sure how many plants can handle that high meat through the extruder!
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Old February 25th, 2007, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsy_girl View Post
Welcome! It will be interesting to see if there is a difference. Not sure how many plants can handle that high meat through the extruder!

Only 2 of their formulas has a somewhat higher meat content the Nutrient dense Lamb and Rice has a protein level suitable for large breed puppies so not really that high a meat content, the Wild & Natural Dry has the highest meat content but they chose for it as the main igredient chicken which is the cheapest of available meat sources.
, and the black forest has a very low meat content as it is meant as a meat mixer for healthy dogs (meaning you need to add meat to it)

Much of their foods would be much the same meat content as Canidae. and other premium foods


Any food that contains grains (wheat, corn, rice, barley , millet, oats etc) can have potentially high myotoxin level, whether it is at the time of processing or even sitting at your house during hot humid weather, all grains with contain some molds, a certain percent is deemed acceptable in human foods, slightly higher in pets food, and considerably higher for livestock feed, when light or heat and humidity hits the existing mold it starts to multiply, even heat from processing will not kill these molds, so what happened at Diamond could occur in any food that contains grains.
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Old February 25th, 2007, 02:07 PM
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Good luck trying to find out who manufactures Timberwolf's food cuz they sure won't tell you. I read on another forum that someone (who owns a pet store) "thinks" it might be made at the same plant as Solid Gold because the packaging and coding system is the same.
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  #6  
Old February 25th, 2007, 02:07 PM
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Sneaky, sneaky.
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Old February 25th, 2007, 03:28 PM
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I just emailed Solid Gold to see if they'll confirm it.
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Old February 25th, 2007, 05:53 PM
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OntarioGreys OntarioGreys is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
Good luck trying to find out who manufactures Timberwolf's food cuz they sure won't tell you. I read on another forum that someone (who owns a pet store) "thinks" it might be made at the same plant as Solid Gold because the packaging and coding system is the same.

Gotta really wonder if it is such a big secret, that they do not want anyone to know,may be went really downhill in the choice of plants like Doane Pet Care


Anyway regardless of which plant is producing the public should have a right to know when they inquire, espcially will all the aflatoxins and mytoxin incidences that have occured over the last number of years
as if a bad shipment of grain arrives it can used inseveral different brands and has in th past not only at Diamond foods

Quote:
In 1995, Nature’s Recipe pulled thousands of tons of dog food off the shelf after consumers complained that their dogs were vomiting and losing their appetite. Nature’s Recipe’s loss amounted to $20 million. The problem was a fungus that produced vomitoxin (an aflatoxin or “mycotoxin,” a toxic substance produced by mold) contaminating the wheat. In 1999, another fungal toxin triggered the recall of dry dog food made by Doane Pet Care at one of its plants, including Ol’ Roy (Wal-Mart’s brand) and 53 other brands. This time, the toxin killed 25 dogs
The number of dogs killed dos not reflect all,it only reflects those who owners where willing to do a necroscopy a the time and does not include those who died later of liver failure due to the toxins

depriving owners of knowing where a food is made in te event of such an incident, prevents them from taking precautions such as preparing a homemade diet or getting their dog to a vet ifcommon symptoms exist for immediate treatment to prevent further liver damage until they hear and learn what foods and what lot numbers are affected
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Old February 25th, 2007, 06:55 PM
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I agree wholeheartedly that TO should be upfront and tell the public where their food is manufactured. I think they are the only pet food company that will not disclose the information. I would really like to know what their reason for this is.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 05:57 PM
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I received an answer from Solid Gold:


Thank you for your inquiry,

Timberwolf organics and Solid Gold are not made at the same manufacturing facility. I do not know who is now manufacturing Timberwolf Organics at this time.

Best regards,

Solid Gold


I guess the mystery will remain a secret.
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  #11  
Old February 26th, 2007, 05:59 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Rainbow have you ever called TO and gotten a person? Or do they always have to call you back?
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  #12  
Old February 26th, 2007, 07:20 PM
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I've never called as I read too many comments saying that you get nowhere with them. Did you try?
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  #13  
Old February 27th, 2007, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by OntarioGreys View Post
.........Any food that contains grains (wheat, corn, rice, barley , millet, oats etc) can have potentially high myotoxin level, whether it is at the time of processing or even sitting at your house during hot humid weather, all grains with contain some molds, a certain percent is deemed acceptable in human foods, slightly higher in pets food, and considerably higher for livestock feed, when light or heat and humidity hits the existing mold it starts to multiply, even heat from processing will not kill these molds, so what happened at Diamond could occur in any food that contains grains.
I did not know that. VERY INTERESTING!!! I will certainly remember that. I'm glad that my two are on a grain-free formula (TO Ocean Blue). So, given what you just stated, it's likely that the grains in some of their kibble also contain myotoxins?
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Old February 27th, 2007, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
.......I think they are the only pet food company that will not disclose the information.......
WEIRD! That is scary. Are they afraid that they'll loose business by disclosing where it's produced? I'm curious now, so I'm going to see if I can get an answer from them. I also want to know!

So far, I've always been able to recieve information from the other companies that I've made numerous inquiries to (Solid Gold & DVP Natural Balance). Hopefully I'll have just as good as results with TO.
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  #15  
Old February 27th, 2007, 06:38 PM
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At one time TO was manufactured at one of the Diamond plants and when Diamond had their troubles they tried to hide the fact. They have since changed to a different manufacturer but still will not disclose information. I have heard of numerous people trying to email them to find but it's still a mystery.

Good luck and please let us know if you find out.
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  #16  
Old February 27th, 2007, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldens4Ever View Post
I did not know that. VERY INTERESTING!!! I will certainly remember that. I'm glad that my two are on a grain-free formula (TO Ocean Blue). So, given what you just stated, it's likely that the grains in some of their kibble also contain myotoxins?
myotoxins I spelt wrong should have been mycotoxins

the form that occured in diamonds foods was alfatoxin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aflatoxin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycotoxin

Even some levels can be found in meat(livestock) much is filtered out by the liver but grains based foods tend to be worse and act as sugar source to feed molds so they can grow in summer foods need to kept on a cool dark place with low humidity to prevent the molds from growing to toxic proportion

The last link mentions binding agents

one type of binding agent is Montmorillonite(bentonite) Clay which Natures Variety adds to their pet foods http://naturesvariety.com/content.la...9F48OlQXEA9ECB

I think in time we will see this added to more and more pet foods as a safety precaution but more worrying may be that the FDA will then allow grains with higher levels of mycotoxins to be used in pet foods.

Quote:
Animal Management
If unacceptable mycotoxin levels occur, removal of the contaminated feed is preferable. While it is often not possible to completely replace the ration, particularly the forage ingredients, obviously, moldy feeds should be removed. Acidic diets may intensify the effects of mycotoxins and should be avoided in these situations. Increasing nutrients such as protein, energy (fats and carbohydrates), and vitamins in the diet may also be advisable. The addition of antioxidants to the animal assists in dealing with the effects of mycotoxins.
The possible use of inorganic binders (mineral clays) to bind mycotoxins, and prevent them from being absorbed by the animal's gut, has received a lot of research attention recently. These clay products (which include zeolites, bentonite, bleaching clays from refining of canola oil, and hydrated sodium calcium aluminosilicates [HSCAS]) have been shown to change the responses of rats to zearalenone and T-2 toxin. However, it should be clearly understood that binding of some mycotoxins may be weak or nonexistent and that clay products differ in their ability to bind mycotoxins. While one HSCAS product called NovaSil has been shown to bind aflatoxin protecting animals against aflatoxicosis, under FDA regulations these clay products cannot be sold as mycotoxin binders. Nonetheless, many clay products are GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) and are used as anticaking or free-flow additives for feeds.
Dietary clays contain about 60 different minerals so therefore sold as a mineral supplement, so if added to petfoods will likely be labeled and referred to as such rather than as an additive to protect against mycotoxic illness
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Last edited by OntarioGreys; February 27th, 2007 at 07:19 PM.
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  #17  
Old February 27th, 2007, 07:38 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Rainbow, I never got anywhere with them, neither by email nor by leaving messages on their machine.....
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  #18  
Old February 27th, 2007, 10:48 PM
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Yeah, I hear ya.
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  #19  
Old February 27th, 2007, 11:17 PM
Emmalou Emmalou is offline
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Interesting...I will let you all know if I see any difference. I wonder why they will not disclose.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 07:53 PM
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OntarioGreys-
Thanks for the great info.

I e-mailed TO two days ago with my inquiry about where their foods are produced. No response yet. Interestingly, I've always recieved a response from them concerning other questions....... I really want to know! They will be receiving a call from me as well.
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Old March 1st, 2007, 07:59 PM
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Good luck.....I really hope you get an answer. Let us know how you make out.
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  #22  
Old March 1st, 2007, 08:39 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Well, it's not Doane Pet care... I called them and asked and they had never heard of TO..
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  #23  
Old March 1st, 2007, 10:48 PM
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Who is Doane Pet Care?
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  #24  
Old March 1st, 2007, 10:50 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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The GIANT food company that makes Ol' Roy and all the walmart brands, along with 35 other "mystery" private brands.
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  #25  
Old March 1st, 2007, 10:55 PM
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No wonder I didn't know them .....I don't go near that crap.
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  #26  
Old March 1st, 2007, 11:09 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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No wonder I didn't know them .....I don't go near that crap.
lol Which is why I called them to make sure they aren't making TO.
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  #27  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 12:28 PM
klytamnestra klytamnestra is offline
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Smile new customer service guy at TO

try contacting Chris Porch, he has been quite responsive and posts actively on another forum.

christopher.porch@timberwolforganics.com

407-802-7865.
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  #28  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 12:53 PM
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I just sent an email. Hopefully he is better at answering than the owner, Mark.
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  #29  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 12:54 PM
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Cool! Thank you for that!
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  #30  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 02:03 PM
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One can only hope for a reply.
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