Tension in the family over the dog

[Riluke]

Well here is my rant for the week.

My sister informed me last night that we are not to come to her house with our dog as her husband does not like dogs and does not want their son near dogs. I was a little surprised but said I had no problem respecting her wishes as I know not everyone is a dog person. She then went on about how I still have to come down but now I must use a kennel or have someone dog sit, and I need to do the same when we all come to visit our parents.

It really shocked me that she had that attitude (especially considering we had a dog growing up). Now as I said I really have no problem respecting people's wishes when it comes to bringing a pet into their home, but my parents love the puppy and have told me he is welcome whenever we visit. My sister doesn't seem to understand that we view Luke as a family member and he will be travelling with us when ever possible.

She said that as a lawyer she sees a lot of dog attacks and that large dogs like Mastiff's are vicious breed and that they can maul your child for no reason and by having that dog you are taking a chance with the life of your child.

She will not listen to reason, especially when I tell her about Mastiff's, she is convinced they are vicious in nature and that I am a bad parent for having that type of dog in our house, in her mind it is even worse that he has some Shepherd in him too.

I was so frustrated with her by the end of that conversation I could barely talk. Who knew that getting a puppy could cause such tension.

[chico2]

IMO,your sister can dictate who and what comes to her house,but other than that,she has no say in the matter.
If your parents enjoy the pup,your sister and her hubby should stay home,it's her choice,or you just simply keep the dog away from your BIL.
Your pup is part of your family and yes,there are people who are uncomfortable around large dogs and I am sure you respect that,but for your sister to demand you kennel your dog is just over the top.
As for beeing a danger to your kids,any dog can be a danger to small children if not properly trained and supervised,even a Chihuahua,beeing a MastiffX does not make your pup a childkiller.

[joeysmama]

I agree with Chico. It's fine for you sister to ask that you not bring your dog to her house. But if your parents are ok with bringing the puppy to visit that's really not her look out is it? And he's still a puppy? I would think that it would be better for him to be around children and get used to them now wouldn't it?

[bendyfoot]

OMG, what a narrow-minded view your sister has!

Like the others said, her home is her castle, and she can say who comes and goes, but the rest...yeesh....

[Riluke]

It is odd that her views have changed so much over the years. We had a dog when we were kids that my parents brought home from the SPCA. She was this brown shaggy so-ugly-its-cute dog with the gentlest temperament ever. When she was out in the back field we used to call her the ‘half shed bison’, because that is what she looked like. You would think that it was a positive experience. Sure there are some breeds I would not bring into a house with children, but to never have a dog because it has the ability to harm someone is really close minded to me.

I have a six year old son, and there is another six year old and a 1 year old next door. Luke plays with them (supervised of course), in fact we start puppy kindergarten on Sunday. He will be well socialized one way or the other. I think the idea that she can keep her son away from dogs is a little on the crazy side, but hey to each her own.

I know my parents don’t mind the dog, they live in the country and he would have lots of places to play, they treated their dog like it was one of the kids (better sometimes if you ask me). So I am unconcerned about bringing Luke there. I told her I was not upset or hurt about her asking us not to bring the dog to her house, she has every right to do so, but my parents house is not hers and she needs to get over this or we probably won’t be seeing a lot of each other.

[x.l.r.8]

Can you not compromise, can they leave their child at the childminders when you got to your parents as I heard that it's mostly children of narrow minded parents that antagonise dogs .
It seems that your sister is unfortunatly the mouth-piece for her husband and is making more reasons to justify his actions. I call her expierence of large dog attacks B/S. I would be surprised if she has heard of more than one WITH clarification of the details. The same way some Dr.s believe they have looked after every type of patient when in fact they have only ususally heard or read about something somewhere and suddenly it was their patient.
It's not something that will go away but I don't think he/she will ever think they are in the wrong so it's not a situation that is going to go away. Maybe you could send her an 'I'm going to miss you' card and explain to your parents so they don't get caught in the middle as they really don't deserve to be dragged into it.
Good luck

[Shaykeija]

I was just thinking how rude her sister is. In my way of thinking to keep her children safe she should wrap them up in bubble wrap and not expose those kids to anything. As a non parent of human babies another thought races through my mind....Birth control could have taken care of her problem...

[joeysmama]

I would be worried about the little boy developing a fear of dogs. It sounds as though his mom is teaching him fear rather than healthy respect.

[Riluke]

Originally Posted by joeysmama

I would be worried about the little boy developing a fear of dogs. It sounds as though his mom is teaching him fear rather than healthy respect.

That worries me too. I would think that by being exposed to animals in supervised situations then he would develop a good respect for animals. From day one we always had an animal in the house - first it was my cat (who passed away of old age), then the rats and now the dog. He treats them all with great respect and love and never has there been a problem. I just can't get her to see that, and like someone else said I think she is just trying to keep the peace with her husband.

My mother was actually in tears last night because she thinks we are never going to visit each other again. Despite the fact that I am very upset with my sister I had to placate her by saying that it will work out one way or another.

Ah well what are you going to do I guess I will just have to find away to keep everyone happy.

[dtbmnec]

So ummmm what's your sister/brother in law going to do when their child grows up and makes friends who have *GASP* a *GASP* pet!? Hog tie him and tell him he can't play with Freddy because he's got a hamster?

Megan

[Jim Hall]

That is so silly maybe the hubbie is afraid of him?
I used to petsit for a mastiff and he was the sweetest gentlest dog ive known When I walked him all the kids would run up and hug him and he loved it

[rainbow]

Originally Posted by Jim Hall

maybe the hubbie is afraid of him?

Has anyone ever asked your BIL why he doesn't like dogs?

[CyberKitten]

I can only agree with the others here. I seems she is more than a little too demanding - I well understand her own concerns. I even have friends and neighbours who are afraid of a chocolate lab!! But as Chico said, any dog odf any breed who has not been well socialized can have problems and children and dogs always need to be supervised regardless of the breed. It's just common sense!

I do think she is sadly depriving her son of the oy of knowing what a pet is - and most children enjoy being around pets (we use them in the hospital for pet therapy so she may encounter mastiffs where she least expects them!) One of my GP friends brings her Yorkies to work - and obviously - since she has a large practice of allergy sufferers, they do not go into that part of the office. But most kids love going to her office - just as many like to come to mine more to see YY than to see me. I can truly sense the appointment if there are no cats around when my patients come - I am much more boring than my cats, lol If a parent requests that their child not have any contact with an animal (ie in the pet therapy program or in my office, I accede to those wishes but you know, that request is so very rare!)

Your sister is also affecting her child's health. It is a well documented fact that children who grow up in homes with animals (whether cats, dogs, gerbils, rabbits...) are much less likely to develop allergies or asthma either i childhood or later in life. They tend to have a better immune system because they are exposed to more.

Your sister is an educated woman - tell her to read the August 28/02 issue of JAMA - Aug. 28 issue of Journal of the American Medical Association, the intensive and peer reviewed study headed by lead investigator Dr. Dennis R. Ownby of the Medical College of Georgia. As a a lawyer, she surely has access to Lexus Nexis and can access the article and if she does not want to read the entire piece, the abstract is online.

Actually, I have pulled the article up for you to give to her:

Paradoxical Effect of Domestic Animals on Asthma and Allergic Sensitization

Thomas A. E. Platts-Mills, MD, PhD

JAMA. 2002;288:1012-1014.

Over the last 20 years, the relationship between exposure to allergens and asthma has been intensively investigated because the prevalence and severity of the disease have increased, and because sensitization to common indoor allergens is strongly associated with asthma.1-2 Studies on exposure to dust mite allergens have consistently shown a direct relationship to sensitization, as judged by positive skin prick test responses, as well as a strong relationship between sensitization and asthma.3-6 By contrast, several studies of farming communities in Europe have indicated that early exposure to farm animals has a protective effect against both sensitization and asthma.7 Recent evidence has suggested that this effect might be mediated by high exposure to bacterial endotoxins.7-8 Farm animals have not been common in the big cities of America or Europe since before 1900; on the other hand, domestic pets are extremely common, a prolific source of allergens, and sensitization to these allergens is strongly associated with asthma.9-10 It was therefore of considerable interest when reports from Europe suggested that the presence of a cat in the home could decrease the risk of sensitization to cat allergens.11-12 Initial speculation that this effect could be secondary to decisions by families with allergic disease not to have pets has been made unlikely by reports that the same effect occurs in countries where domestic animals are equally common in the homes of families with a history of asthma as in the homes of families without a history of asthma.13 Furthermore, recent evidence from Sweden has shown that the presence of a cat in the home is associated with decreased incidence and prevalence of asthma among preteens.14

The study by Ownby and colleagues15 in this issue of THE JOURNAL provides an important new dimension to the debate. The authors report that children in a birth cohort raised in a house with 2 or more dogs or cats in the first year of life have not only less allergic sensitization to dog and cat as determined by skin prick tests and allergen-specific IgE levels, but also less sensitization to allergens in general at age 6 to 7 years. Among this cohort living in suburban Detroit, the percentage of families who kept dogs and cats was not significantly influenced by a family history of asthma or allergy. Because domestic animals can be a source of endotoxin, this finding opens up the possibility that the effect of pets in the United States could be comparable to the effect of cows in European farming communities.7-8,11, 16

Perhaps the most striking feature of the study by Ownby et al is that children who lived in a house with 2 or more dogs or cats in the first year of life had a decreased prevalence of positive skin prick test responses and serum IgE antibodies to other allergens, eg, pollens and molds.15 This result differs from some previous studies but is consistent with others, and raises important questions about possible immunologic mechanisms.4, 14, 17 It has been suggested that an antigen-specific immune response can influence the response to other antigens by altering the "cytokine milieu," shifting the balance between T helper cell type 2 (TH2)-mediated immune response, which is associated with allergic inflammation, and TH1-mediated response, which is associated with cellular immunity. Interleukin 4 exerts a positive feedback effect on TH2 responses, whereas IL-12, which is involved in TH1-mediated immune responses, can downregulate the development of TH2 responses.18-19

Given the possible role of endotoxin as a stimulant of IL-12, early exposure to endotoxin from animals could bias the overall immune response away from an allergic response so that children who did not become allergic despite high exposure to cat allergen might have some form of TH1 response.19-20 The interpretation of differences in published results depends on specifically defining the type of immune response to both animal allergens and to other allergens among children raised with animals. In particular, it is important to know whether early T-cell priming, with shifts in the balance between TH1 and TH2 responses, is essential for controlling the nonallergic or tolerant response—an immune response that does not give rise to inflammation or tissue damage, and also, whether the effect is "permanent" or depends on continuing allergen exposure. The question of whether the effect of high allergen exposure is permanent is of great practical importance. Many physicians are asked to advise parents about the presence of an animal in the house. However, large numbers of children experience a dramatic reduction in allergen exposure when they leave home.

Although Ownby et al speculate about a TH1 response to animal dander related to early dog and cat exposure, like other researchers, they provide no objective evidence for an allergen-specific TH1 response.8, 20-21 Three approaches have been used to investigate the immune response associated with domestic animal exposure: skin prick tests, serum antibody assays, and in vitro studies on peripheral blood mononuclear cells. The results of skin prick tests are consistent; individuals who have allergic symptoms around animals have positive immediate skin prick test responses, whereas nonallergic individuals with either high or low exposure to cats have negative immediate skin prick test responses and no delayed responses. In a study using antigen-binding radioimmunoprecipitation to measure IgG antibodies in children, many of the children with negative skin prick test responses had serum IgG antibodies to the cat allergen Fel d 1. Further investigation revealed that many of these children had a high proportion of IgG4 antibodies.17 Expression of the gene for IgG4 is dependent on the TH2 cytokine IL-4. Thus, an IgG and IgG4 antibody response without IgE antibody might be regarded as a "modified TH2 response."17, 22 Consistent with this model, preliminary evidence from Reefer et al23 has shown that T cells from individuals with high exposure to cat allergens produce high levels of IL-10, an anti-inflammatory cytokine, in response to Fel d 1 in vitro regardless of their skin prick test responses and allergen-specific serum antibody levels. Increased IL-10 levels are consistent with a CD4-positive T regulatory cell (TR1) response, suggesting that the response to cat allergens may be suppressed or modified by regulatory cells in individuals with both positive and negative skin prick test responses.23 Observation of an IgG4 antibody response to Fel d 1 raises doubts about the hypothesis that shifts in the balance between TH1 and TH2 immune responses can explain changes in the prevalence or severity of asthma. However, it is possible that the presence of animals early in life, as in the study by Ownby et al, results in a different immune response than does exposure later in childhood.

In many parts of the world, proteins derived from dust mites are the dominant allergen associated with asthma.3-6,24 This is not because exposure to mite allergens is quantitatively higher than exposure to other allergens, such as that from domestic cats.9 Indeed, there is abundant evidence that levels of airborne Fel d 1 in houses with a cat are much higher than levels of airborne dust mite allergens in homes that are infested with dust mites.9 Several studies suggest that the prevalence of sensitization to cat allergens is one half or one third of the value that would be expected.12, 24 In many communities, the prevalence of positive skin prick test responses to dust mites or pollens is 30%, whereas sensitization to cats is only 10%.6, 12, 24 Exposure to animal dander in homes is greater than exposure to dust mite or pollen antigens, suggesting that as many as 15% to 20% of the population may develop some form of tolerance to animal allergens. In contrast to results with animal dander, currently available data provide no evidence that any form of tolerance occurs with high exposure to mite or cockroach allergens.16, 25 In addition, in a cross-sectional study of middle-school children, high exposure to cat allergens did not decrease the risk of sensitization to dust mite.16-17 In prior studies, allergic sensitization, as defined by skin prick test positivity to dog or cat allergens, has been consistently associated with asthma, and in some studies, this sensitization to animal allergens was positively associated with exposure to the allergens.4, 10 These results may reflect lower average levels of allergens in homes secondary to differences in furnishings, cleaning habits, or ventilation,4 or alternatively, response to high exposure may be genetically controlled. Another possible explanation is that there may be a "pecking order" of allergens such that a tolerant immune response to dog or cat can decrease the prevalence of responses to pollens, but has little effect on responses to dust mite. Other possible explanations for differences include the timing of responses during childhood, the role of concomitant endotoxin exposure, and the enzymatic activity of mite allergen.26

In conclusion, growing up in a house with pets appears to decrease the risk of developing positive skin test responses and IgE antibodies to allergens derived from the pet. Although the underlying mechanisms remain to be resolved, this finding presents an opportunity to investigate the immunopathology of allergic disease including asthma. At a simple level, avoiding having a cat cannot be recommended as a method of preventing sensitization, since children living without an animal in the home are more likely to develop positive skin test responses to animal allergens. Furthermore, children who develop positive skin prick test responses or IgE antibodies are at increased risk of asthma whether they live in a house with an animal or not. These findings provide evidence that the risk of asthma relates to the IgE portion of the TH2 response. The number of children living in a house with a pet, and the low overall prevalence of positive skin prick test responses to allergens from these animals, suggest that as much as 20% of the population has become immunologically tolerant to proteins or allergens derived from the animals. The new findings in relation to domestic animals provide an opportunity to understand the aspects of the allergic response that create risk for asthma; the mechanisms by which high exposure to a foreign protein (ie, the allergens in animal dander) can give rise to tolerance; and also, the factors that control the prevalence of allergic disease.


AUTHOR INFORMATION

Editorials represent the opinions of the authors and THE JOURNAL and not those of the American Medical Association.

Funding/Support: This editorial is supported by National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases/National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences grant AI-20565.

Corresponding Author and Reprints: Thomas A. E. Platts-Mills, MD, PhD, Division of Asthma, Allergy, and Immunology, University of Virginia Health Sciences Center, Charlottesville, VA 22908.

Author Affiliation: Division of Asthma, Allergy, and Immunology, University of Virginia Health Sciences Center, Charlottesville.


REFERENCES

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9. Luczynska CM, Li Y, Chapman MD, Platts-Mills TA. Airborne concentrations and particle size distribution of allergen derived from domestic cats (Felis domesticus): measurements using cascade impactor, liquid impinger and a two site monoclonal antibody assay for Fel d 1. Am Rev Respir Dis. 1990;141:361. ISI | PUBMED
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[Riluke]

Lots of good points raised by all, thanks for that, and the great article.

I know my sister can be a bit 'opinionated' at times but she is a good person. I try to give her the benefit of the doubt. She gets gets me frustrated that she expects others to always see things her way (guess that's why she's a lawyer ). I suspect my brother in law (who is also a great person, don't get me wrong) never had pets growing up, his family don't seem the type. I think he just has a fear of large dogs.

Strangely, I should probably be the one afraid of dogs, as I was bitten on the face by a German Shepherd when I was young, but for some reason It did not traumatize me.

I respect their concerns and will try to find a way to work around, it would be nice if they tried to make some compromise as well

[ancientgirl]

I'm a little late coming into this, but man I have to say, it sounds like your sister has the balls in her relationship. If your parents don't have a problem with your pup visiting then your sister needs to back off. It's not her home. I don't understand why she thinks she has the right to dictate what happens in someone else's home. So if she were to come and visit you, would you have to kennel your puppy too?

I see this so many times happening to people. They start to take on the opinions of their spouses and forget their own likes and dislikes.

I hope you are able to work this out. I have to say, if my brother ever said anything about my kitties or did anything mean to them, he'd be seeing the business end of my foot.

[Riluke]

I actually have a positive update on this one.

My sister called last night for our 'weekly chat' and wanted to inform me that they have rethought their position on this whole business and when ever we come to visit (at THEIR house!! ) the dog is welcome as well. Talk about a turn around in thinking. I told her that she need not worry about the dog and her toddler as we are very firm in the thinking that children and dogs are good mix but MUST be supervised at all times. This especially goes with her son as our children are very different. My son is a little more tentaive and laid back and is very gentle with the puppy, whereas her little guy is a 'hell on wheels' go getter who fears nothing and may be more rough.

Perhaps they were having a stressful week, or perhaps they were nervous about a big dog but at least they have relented and are willing to meet me half way on this one.

[ancientgirl]

I'm so glad things worked out. Perhaps they rethought their thinking and got some advice from their friends and realized they were acting hastily.

[rainbow]

WOO HOO.....glad to hear your sister has changed her mind. So, when are you going to visit?

[mummummum]

Awww heck ~ maybe we should all come for a visit! Hazel ~ hook up the Springers we're going coastal !

I'm glad it worked out for you. Neither of my sisters are crazy for dawgs the way I am but they pretty much understand I'm a "package deal".

[Riluke]

[QUOTE=mummummum;450722]Awww heck ~ maybe we should all come for a visit! Hazel ~ hook up the Springers we're going coastal !
[QUOTE]

I had a moment picturing the look on my sisters face when all those dogs showed up. Dogapalooza!!

[Mushka]

I thought it quite funny when I read this. My sister doesn't like Rocky and is afraid of him. She won't come to our house because she doesn't want her baby to get hair and all and her husband feels the same way.

I've decided now that if I have the family over at my place, I'll invite her, but if she decides not to come, then I won't worry about it. She can deal with the consequences and my mother even told me she would take care of her as well. My sister was so worried about her daughter taking in hair and litter from her cat that she got rid of her. Thank goodness I found her a good home. She's happier than ever.

Rocky gets excited at first, but once he's settled down, he's just a big baby. With kids, he's so gentle it's amazing to watch. We also grew up with animals in the house as kids.

[chico2]

Mushka,your pup is adorable,is he/she a little pittie??

[Love4himies]

I am glad to hear your sister has come around. This may be the time to show her family how wonderful it is to have a pet in the house. A family without a pet is just not complete! A dog or cat can be a wonderful companion to their son as well as teaching him respect and responsibility.

Good luck with your visit.

[rainbow]

Originally Posted by Love4himies

I am glad to hear your sister has come around. This may be the time to show her family how wonderful it is to have a pet in the house. A family without a pet is just not complete! A dog or cat can be a wonderful companion to their son as well as teaching him respect and responsibility.

Good luck with your visit.

I certainly agree.

[Love4himies]

I would like to add that if you talk to adults who have had pets as children, many would say their dog/cat was their best friend growing up, I know my cat was. It is sad that some parents don't allow their children to experience that type of love.

[dtbmnec]

Yay!!!

I never really had the chance to grow up with a pet...our parents were always short on money (still are..hehe funny how some things never change) and so the best we could afford was a hampster...not much best friendage going on there unfortunately

On the plus side I was always able to run around and play with the neighbour across the way's dog. Husky/wolf mix (apparently anyways) he was the biggest softie you could ever have met. He was an old dog too I think....Beautiful and wonderful dog even if all he knew was how to flop on his side for pets

If I have any kids there will be a pet in the house

Megan

[TeriM]

Yeah, I'm glad things worked out ok .

[Riluke]

I have an update! Lol.
My sister brought her family to my house for a visit last night. They are on vacation and drove up to their cottage and decided to drop in.

How could she help but to fall in love with the puppy? She was picking him up and rubbing his belly. Her son was not so thrilled but Luke is now a big puppy and tends to knock him over, so we had to do some careful restraining of Mr. Excited Puppy when he wanted to pet him.

Even the not so dog friendly husband broke down and petted him. The two things they got from the visit were: “WOW he has BIG MONSTER paws!” …and “that is the most low key puppy I have ever met.” I carefully hid my gloating I told you so smile and told her that he is a very good dog. She agreed. She is officially on the roster of the Luke fan club. We spent the rest of the evening playing - what breed does he look like the most, and reminiscing about how much he looks like the dog our neighbours had (Shep) when we were kids.

[hazelrunpack]

An excellent update! Do you think it's too soon to pack up the Setters and go to her house for a visit? hazel guesses that might be pushing it a bit!

Your mom must be pretty relieved.

[rainbow]

Glad to hear the visit went so well with your sister and BIL.