Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog food forum > Cat food forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old April 10th, 2010, 01:09 PM
R&J R&J is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 5
Unhappy Really not sure what to try next. :(

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forums and have been browsing around at the comments.

I'm in a tough spot and hoping to get some helpful feedback. Here's my situation:

I have two cats. One is a Ragdoll. She's 1 1/2 and full of energy. She's also overweight, and has been since we got her as a kitten. She comes from a very reputable breeder with an excellent track record. We did a LOT of research on that before adopting her. Our other cat is a 10 year old mix-breed. He's a long-haired red cat that looks much like a smaller version of a Maine Coon. He's always been thin, but as he's aged, he's filled out to a nice 10 pounds, which is about perfect for his size. He's the more complicated one. He's always had bad tartar on his teeth. He gets chronic hairballs as well. The worst thing is he has an extremely sensitive tummy and gets diarrhea a lot. When he was about two he had the problem and the vet suggested I just switch him to a turkey based diet, which seemed to do the trick. But then about two years later the vet found he had crystals in his urine and put him on Medi-Cal preventative. He's been on it ever since. And for a long time he was fine. But over the past year he's had diarrhea almost non-stop. And sometimes there's a bit of blood in it. I'm sure it doesn't help at all that Royal Canin recently took over and changed the ingredients (though they "claim" they didn't change them - I compared the old bag to the new one, and indeed it is significantly different).

Both cats had the runs for a while, but the kitten has been fine for the past few months. He's still not any better. His health is fine otherwise. In fact since getting the kitten he's actually got more energy than he's had in years, and is even playing with his toys more. They've been tested for worms several times and it's always negative.

I would like to have a lot more wet food in their diets, but every time I try to add in even a bit of canned food she gets the runs again and his gets worse.

I've also tried some pre-packaged raw food, which the kitten will not eat for the most part. He will eat some of it. And I think it may have helped a bit when I did get him to eat it. But it's SO expensive that I can't see us affording to switch over to it completely. Their food expense would then be about the same as the family's! That's just not realistic. I'd like to get them eating more wet food and keep trying to give them some raw from time to time. I've read a number of people recommending Wellness. Is it reasonable for super-sensitive tummies? I've tried very slowly and carefully adding in high quality stuff like Evo, etc. in the past (with the goal of getting them off the Medi-Cal). But their tummies just could not take the richness of those foods. I'm really stuck! And I don't want to go with the vet recommendations if I don't have to, because I find prescription food is full of crap, way overpriced, and still no better than what you can get at pet stores. Though I will say years after the urine crystals diagnosis he's never had any bladder problems. I'd like to keep it that way.

Sorry this is so long! I just wanted to get all the pertinent info out for anyone who may have been through some of this and have some helpful advice. I really need to figure out what to feed these to so they'll be healthy and happy, but without breaking the bank. Thanks!

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old April 10th, 2010, 04:26 PM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,568
Welcome to the forum & so nice of you to provide a pic without all of us bugging you for it first we are a little crazy that way

Your two are gorgeous what are their names?

My cat was also previously on a prescription food for what her former vet called a "sensitive stomach", once I switched her to Wellness canned she had no more issues with food-causing soft poop.

How long did you try the new foods before switching back to the current? Most animals need a gradual transition to a new food usually over the course of a couple of weeks. It is normal for them to have soft poop/diarreah for a week or so on the new food as they process the new formulas.

Definately grain-free canned is far better than any dry food, but if you need to switch to a higher quality dry food first before making the switch to canned that's okay.
-Wellness, Innova, Evo, Nature's Variety, Merricks, California Naturals, Eagle Pack Holistic Select are all great choices.

Raw of course is the best thing for them, there are a few options for you there
- BC Local prepackaged raw: Amore, Blue Kat, Natural Instincts, Fresh Start, Club Canine, 3P, among others
- Also BC Local Feline Futures TC Instinct pre mix powder you add to your own raw meat - this is what I currently feed my grrl and it works out cheaper than prepackaged
- do it yourself raw all meat, organs, bone from butcher/grocery store

Tips on Transitioning Dry Food Addicts to Canned Food can be found here

Info on Home-Prepared Diets
__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old April 10th, 2010, 04:26 PM
chico2's Avatar
chico2 chico2 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 26,591
R&J,what absolutely beautiful kitties they are
I feed my 3 cats Wellness canned exclusively,stopped any dry a couple of weeks ago,I refuse to feed them anything the vet suggests,so my vet has given up.

If your boy gets diarrhea,you can go to a health-food store and get some Slippery Elm Bark,it has worked with one of my cats.
I bought it in capsule-form and add just a 1/4 of a capsule to his food.
It's very inexpensive.
__________________
"The cruelest animal is the Human animal"
3 kitties,Rocky(r.i.p my boy),Chico,Vinnie
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old April 10th, 2010, 06:04 PM
Winston's Avatar
Winston Winston is offline
Mom of 3 precious Angels
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Hamilton Ontario
Posts: 7,300
I have also made the switch to almost 100 % canned but still leave a tiny bit of Orijen Fish Formula. For canned I am using Dick Van Pattens Natural Balance. I tried every brand on the market and my 2 always snubbed them. Once I found this brand they would only eat the duck and green pea or the venison and green pea. Then I slowly tried the other variety of chicken flavors from Natural Balance and they will eat that one too now.

Just something to try! I know how you feel about the feeding problems! Things are good with what they eat now but it took time!

Gorgeous kittys by the way!
__________________
Tabitha April 10, 1995 - August 23, 2013
Bomber April 10, 1995 - July 12, 2010
Winston Nov 15, 1999 - September 15, 2011
Sophie Aug 30, 2011

"UNTIL ONE HAS LOVED AN ANIMAL, PART OF THEIR SOUL REMAINS UNAWAKENED"
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
-Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old April 10th, 2010, 06:10 PM
R&J R&J is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 5
Thanks, and thanks for the tips too, you guys!

I will definitely look into all those helpful suggestions. I would like to investigate the less expensive ways to introduce at least some raw food, but one step at a time. Getting the tummy troubles under control has to come first, IMHO.

OK, so while waiting for some responses (hehe) I went to the store and talked to a very helpful sales clerk. For the first time I actually got a recommendation to help with the diarrhea. Some liquid stuff that looks a bit like pepto bismol. That should help firm things up a bit. And they recommended also, of all things - pumpkin. I had to laugh because he LOVES all squash and will consider a little bit of pumpkin now and then to be a special treat. One thing at a time though, as this is trial and error, and I don't want to constipate him! I also picked up a couple of little packs of Wellness wet food, which I needed to get him to take the anti-diarrhea meds anyway. Needless to say, he gobbled it down right away. They also suggested a different kind of dry food to switch him to so that he's getting just a different source of protein and carb, but still in roughly the same percentages. I've tried the higher quality high protein foods, and they're just too much for both of them. I had introduced those foods very, very slowly over the course of several months, and was never able to get them to adjust. The clerk said that was because their bodies are just too used to the lower protein diets, and likely won't adjust anymore. The new dry food is called Natural Balance. I won't be trying to add it in for a few days or maybe a week. Like I said, one thing at a time. Wish us luck!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old April 10th, 2010, 10:35 PM
growler~GateKeeper's Avatar
growler~GateKeeper growler~GateKeeper is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17,568
Yes pure canned pumpkin -not the pie filling, there's too much spices- or you can buy & cook a pumpkin or squash yourself. You can also use butternut squash babyfood providing the only ingredients are butternut squash & water. I've used the Heinz Organics Pure Butternut Squash babyfood.

You would want to start out with 1/8th or 1/4 of a teaspoon twice a day see how that works, if needed then increase by 1/4 tsp. Beware though as you mention it can cause constipation if they have too much.

Personally I would prefer change/add only one thing at a time, that way it's easier on their system & you can see what works & what doesn't.

What are the anti-diarreah meds you mentioned? Are these from your vet?

If your cat is already taking meds for diarreah I would not add pumpkin/squash until those meds are finished to ensure he isn't constipated from both working on the same issue.

__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old April 11th, 2010, 10:52 AM
R&J R&J is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 5
I have quite a bit of pureed pumpkin in my freezer from last Fall when I cooked a bunch for future use. I didn't put any spices in them, so that should work great. I'd have to check the bottle of the stuff I got at the pet store. It just says "anti-diarrhea". I figured I'd start with that for a couple of days and see if there are any changes. If not I'll take him off that and try some small amounts of pumpkin instead (but definitely not both - definitely don't want to overdo it!). Switching their food over is going to cause diarrhea for both of them anyway, so I'm thrilled to have some options to make this a smoother transaction.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old April 11th, 2010, 11:30 AM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by R&J View Post
Getting the tummy troubles under control has to come first, IMHO.
One thing I'd recommend trying is some probiotics before, during, and for a little while after doing any food transitions. Don't use yogurt, get some capsules from the refrigerator section of a health food store. Natural Factor's Ultimate Multi is a good one because it is very high potency, so you only need a tiny bit (like 1/6th of a capsule per cat, twice a day), and it has a large variety of organisms, to cover all the bases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R&J View Post
I've tried the higher quality high protein foods, and they're just too much for both of them. I had introduced those foods very, very slowly over the course of several months, and was never able to get them to adjust.
What were the foods? It's not likely the amount of protein that's the problem, but the type, along with whatever the other ingredients in the food are. Most of these supposedly higher quality kibbles have an awful lot of ingredients in them, everything from cottage cheese to several different types of fish (which is a common allergen for cats - and not good to feed everyday for other reasons), too much potato, and just too many different protein sources in one food. Very complex, and if you have cats with digestive issues, you want to make things simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R&J View Post
The clerk said that was because their bodies are just too used to the lower protein diets, and likely won't adjust anymore.
Nah, not true. They absolutely can "adjust" to a more species appropriate diet, millions of years of evolution can't be undone in a generation or 2. What's more likely happening is that their intestinal flora is easily thrown outta whack with the diet changes. Slippery elm, as chico2 mentioned, combined with some probiotics and a simple, low carbohydrate, non-fishy wet food would be the path I would take.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R&J View Post
The new dry food is called Natural Balance.
Which flavour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by R&J View Post
It just says "anti-diarrhea".
I'm curious to know what this is. Not all products sold in pet food stores are appropriate or even safe for cats, so it's a good idea to check ingredients and do a bit of research when trying new things.
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old April 11th, 2010, 03:13 PM
R&J R&J is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
One thing I'd recommend trying is some probiotics before, during, and for a little while after doing any food transitions. Don't use yogurt, get some capsules from the refrigerator section of a health food store. Natural Factor's Ultimate Multi is a good one because it is very high potency, so you only need a tiny bit (like 1/6th of a capsule per cat, twice a day), and it has a large variety of organisms, to cover all the bases.
Interesting. So the dairy content in probiotics aren't a problem? From what I understand, adult cats should not have dairy. (I ask because I am also not able to tolerate any dairy, and that includes probiotics, so I wonder if some cats may be as sensitive as I am).


Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
What were the foods? It's not likely the amount of protein that's the problem, but the type, along with whatever the other ingredients in the food are. Most of these supposedly higher quality kibbles have an awful lot of ingredients in them, everything from cottage cheese to several different types of fish (which is a common allergen for cats - and not good to feed everyday for other reasons), too much potato, and just too many different protein sources in one food. Very complex, and if you have cats with digestive issues, you want to make things simple.
The two I tried were Orijen and EVO, both of which are grain-free and come highly recommended. I did quite a bit of research on them, actually. But after slowly introducing those foods over a period of several months, both the cats had chronic diarrhea and I had to give up. Soon after, the younger cat's cleared up and she's been fine since. However since that time, neither has has been able to tolerate wet food either, which is very frustrating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
Nah, not true. They absolutely can "adjust" to a more species appropriate diet, millions of years of evolution can't be undone in a generation or 2. What's more likely happening is that their intestinal flora is easily thrown outta whack with the diet changes. Slippery elm, as chico2 mentioned, combined with some probiotics and a simple, low carbohydrate, non-fishy wet food would be the path I would take.
I'll definitely look into the probiotics idea. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
Which flavour?
I had picked up the salmon, but returned it today and got the duck instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarcatmom View Post
I'm curious to know what this is. Not all products sold in pet food stores are appropriate or even safe for cats, so it's a good idea to check ingredients and do a bit of research when trying new things.
Well it said it was basically a watered down Kaopectate. It's formulated for dogs and cats so shouldn't have any aspirin in it (which the stuff for humans apparently does, which is why it's bad for animals). So it's probably safe, but I took it back anyway, and will just try the pumpkin.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old April 11th, 2010, 09:39 PM
sugarcatmom's Avatar
sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 5,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by R&J View Post
Interesting. So the dairy content in probiotics aren't a problem?
It certainly can be, which is why I recommend capsules instead of yogurt (although some cats can handle goat yogurt better than cow yogurt). The Natural Factors one is dairy-free. Here is more info on it: http://www.nutrawayscanada.com/Ultim..._p_17-218.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by R&J View Post
The two I tried were Orijen and EVO, both of which are grain-free and come highly recommended.
Those were the ones I was thinking of with regards to too many ingredients. Here's what's in Orijen:
Fresh deboned chicken, chicken meal, turkey meal, russet potato, fresh deboned salmon (a natural source of DHA and EPA), herring meal, sweet potato, fresh deboned lake whitefish, peas, fresh deboned walleye, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E and citric acid), chicken liver, salmon meal, fresh deboned turkey, fresh whole eggs, fresh deboned herring, sun-cured alfalfa, salmon oil, chicory root, dehydrated organic kelp, pumpkin, carrots, spinach, turnip greens, apples, cranberries, saskatoon berries, black currants,
For protein sources, there's chicken, turkey, salmon, herring, whitefish, walleye, and eggs. That's 7! With a large amount of it fish. Then the russet potato, sweet potato and peas for starch to hold it all together.

Here is the EVO:
Turkey
Chicken Meal
Chicken
Herring Meal
Chicken Fat
Peas
Turkey Meal
Pea Fiber
Natural Flavors
Apples
Carrots
Cranberries
Herring Oil
Tomatoes
Pumpkin
Dried Chicory Root
Cottage Cheese
Alfalfa Sprouts
Fewer protein sources than Orijen, which is good, but still more than necessary, including cottage cheese. And then there's that fish again, although I think herring is probably less of a problem than the bigger fish like salmon. EVO is also one of the highest calorie foods on the market at 612 cal/cup (I use it to augment the diet of the ferals I feed for that reason, although they mostly get - and prefer - canned). You only need to feed a small amount to maintain the weight of most cats, and overfeeding can result in digestive issues.

But the biggest reason these 2 dry foods and all the others like them aren't great as a main diet for any cat is because they only contain 10% or less moisture. Cats evolved eating nice juicy rodents, birds, insects and lizards, at about 60-80% moisture. Many of the health problems of eating a dry food diet are due to the fact that it's DRY. Bladder, urinary tract and kidney issues being the biggies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R&J View Post
However since that time, neither has has been able to tolerate wet food either, which is very frustrating.
Which wet foods have you tried and how have you introduced them?

An excellent protein source that is well tolerated by many cats with intestinal issues is rabbit. Nature's Variety makes a canned and raw rabbit, although it can be pretty pricey. For simplicity, I really like Innova Evo 95% varieties like venison or duck. They're basically just meat and broth with the added vits and mins and some extra oils (and carrageenan for thickening). By Nature also makes some decent single-protein source foods.
__________________
"To close your eyes will not ease another's pain." ~ Chinese Proverb

“We must not refuse to see with our eyes what they must endure with their bodies.” ~ Gretchen Wyler
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old April 17th, 2010, 06:13 PM
R&J R&J is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 5
OK, so here's how it's going. I've started giving them canned food several times/day, and they're responding well. In fact I think they're starting to prefer it to the dry food. So that's a bonus. Though if I leave the dry food dish empty overnight, I hear about it! lol. So that's not an option. I've now got the new dry food mixed about 50/50 with the old food, and they don't really seem to notice a difference.

She's doing great, no tummy troubles. He's still got diarrhea, though not nearly as bad as it's been at times in the past. I've been giving him pumpkin (pure stuff that I cooked back in the fall and froze, no spices or anything). I'd stopped it for a couple of days in case he was getting constipated, but nope. So I'll keep giving him a bit each day to see if it helps more. I've also got to get him some probiotics.

For the wet food I've been giving them Wellness and Natural Balance Duck. I think I'd like to try some of the EVO canned duck food as well if they have any in stock.

So, overall, I'm encouraged by the progress so far.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old April 18th, 2010, 07:44 AM
chico2's Avatar
chico2 chico2 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 26,591
R&J,thank's for the update,sounds like things are improving
__________________
"The cruelest animal is the Human animal"
3 kitties,Rocky(r.i.p my boy),Chico,Vinnie
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:02 PM.