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Old May 26th, 2004, 07:05 PM
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dangerous dogs on loose, suburb in lockdown

last week a woman who houses 4 bull mastifs saw her dog attacking the neighbour dog. she rushed out to stop it and the 4 dogs turned on her and mauled her to within an inch of life, she is still critical. a passer by managed to beat the dogs and get them off her. police called and two dogs were shot on site.on the news they showed the ambulance officers running for their lives under fire cover of the police to the house. 2 dogs got away. the entire small suburb where this occured is now under lock down and residents are not allowed to leave houses excepot for school and work, and not allowed on the streets as are service men ect (telephone repairers ect). children at local school not allowed outside and are escorted individually to classes and cars. shops lock door and will open when you knock. police have told everyone thay will now hunt the dogs and use weapons so no go zones everywhere. the dogs were sighted yesterday in the bush near the owners house. police are worried the dogs are getting hungry and will attack worse. so now it is a full scale hunt and shoot on site. poor doggies, oww.
firstly is is really acceptable to have that many muscle breeds in the one yard, she was not rescue they were just her pets?
can those dogs be rehabilitated??
do you think this woman should be held fully responsible and have to pay bills for hunt ect??
i just have this pic in my head of 100 coppers all with guns sneaking around, whilst too little doggies run and have fun in the bush, im sure they are grinning the doggies. it is hard to hate the dogs, i dont believe it is there fault but hers.
but what do you know, on news last night they are now talking of banning more breeds, freaks me out as i have big dog and GSD featured 5th on the most dangerous list in the news paper (yeah right).
sad what one fool can do to the rest of us and a lovely breed. so here we go....
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Old May 26th, 2004, 07:19 PM
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Hey do u have a link for the newspaper that published this, love to read the story.
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Old May 26th, 2004, 07:44 PM
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Tx Laura

Interesting they say first
Quote:
The dogs, believed to be part pitbull terrier, were in a pack of four who savaged their owner on Saturday

then say

Quote:
Mr Atalla said council was yet to determine the dogs' breed.
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Old May 26th, 2004, 07:48 PM
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sorry dear but i am usless at computers so i have had to cut and paste articals (story in most mjr papers), cannot find a decent one to tell whole story so here is what i found it is hard to find the right one, boy am i useless. oh and guess what they are calling them - pitbulls, that is crap, i saw them on the news and they were mastiff, not pitbulls (the breed is banned here so how did she hide them, yeah they were mastiffs). so just blame the worst breed for it so then they get worse rep, makes me mad .i cant find any from yesterday talking about lockdown will keep looking but for now here is whati have

from the Sydney m0rning herald-
Traps laid for roaming pitbulls

26may04

TRAPS have been laid to try to catch two vicious pitbull terriers on the loose in a south-west Sydney community since they savaged their owner and her neighbour at the weekend.

Council workers and police today continued their hunt for the dogs, which have been roaming Kemps Creek since Saturday afternoon when they and two other dogs killed a Jack Russell terrier before turning on the woman and her neighbour.
The dogs attacked the 33-year-old woman at her home when she tried to break up the attack on her neighbour's Jack Russell.

Neighbour Phil Ciantar stepped in but was chased by the dogs when he tried to fend them off by whipping them with his daughter's horse bridle.

The dogs' owner today remained in Liverpool Hospital in a stable condition.


this from police web site-

Woman Injured Following Dog Attack – Kemps Creek
23, May 2004
Police are investigating the circumstances surrounding an incident which resulted in a woman being mauled by a number of dogs at Kemps Creek yesterday.

About 5pm yesterday (Saturday 22 May 2004), a 33-year-old woman was in the yard of her Racemosa Street property when she saw her four pit bull terriers attacking a Jack Russell Terrier.

When the woman attempted to stop the pit bulls, they turned on her, causing lacerations and puncture wounds to both her arms.

A male neighbour went to her assistance and managed to divert the attention of the dogs, enabling the woman to run into her house.

The dogs then attacked the 41-year-old neighbour, causing a laceration to his right bicep.

The man managed to run to safety by climbing a fence.

Police attended and were confronted by the dogs. Officers used capsicum spray in an attempt to subdue the animals, however, when this was unsuccessful, a single shot was fired from a service revolver into the ground. This caused the dogs to run to the rear of the property, and enabled police and ambulance officers to assist the female victim, who was then taken to Liverpool Hospital for treatment.

The Jack Russell Terrier died as a result of injuries sustained in the attack by the other dogs.



they are not PITBULLS, how could they bwe, they are mastiffs and it sucks that the police are using this breeds name. bulls are banned her, how could someone hide 4 of them in suburban yard, i just do not believe that at all, and i saw the dogs, not bulls. all news paper articles have IN the heading PITBULLS,just appalling.
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Old May 26th, 2004, 07:50 PM
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ps all the stories seem to be different, ages wrong in several articals, dog breed different in different papers ect. and the events seem to get confused somewhat in other papers, so i will try and find somethng from yesterday
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Old May 26th, 2004, 10:57 PM
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Mel,that's the media for you,not all people know of Bull Mastiffs,but they certainly know of"bad"pit-bulls,thank's to the very source.
It's horrible about the little Jack Russel,he would not stand a chance
I can understand the dogs need to be killed,I am just hoping it will be quick ...
I picture all these crazed people with guns,taking pot-shots at everything that moves,a very scary scenario
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Old May 27th, 2004, 08:45 AM
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Hey if a dog attacks it HAS to be PBT or x'd with a PBT right! Because they are mean and vicious dogs right!!

Makes me sick!

Mel if you hear anymore about this let us know pls.
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Old May 27th, 2004, 10:39 AM
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That is awful I hate how people already have their mind made up about certain breeds. It makes me so MAD! Poor dogs, now they are going to have to die because of this!
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Old May 27th, 2004, 10:51 AM
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I just got shivers down my spine reading this!! OMG, I am SOOO mad!! This is exactly what us pitbull owners face daily. Clearly the friggin dog is not a pit, but it must be to do such a horrible thing!!! It has short hair and attacked - PITBULL!! The sad thing is that the media enjoys the terror it sets into the public.
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Old May 27th, 2004, 03:29 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Quote:
Hey if a dog attacks it HAS to be PBT or x'd with a PBT right! Because they are mean and vicious dogs right!!
That's exactly right. After all, how much hysteria and terror could the media drum up if the headlines said "Mixed Breed Attacks!"

Most people cannot recognize a pit bull, and I've seen everything from Pugs to Dals to coonhounds being ID'd as pit bulls.

As sammiec said - If it has short hair and it attacks (or even LOOKS as though it may attack) it's a pit bull!!
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Old May 27th, 2004, 05:17 PM
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Mel, aside from the fact that they are pitbulls, I would say once dogs have mauled like that there really is no alternative but to put them down.
As for the woman paying the bills I think she's suffered enough and Thank God they didn't maul a child or someone else. As for if its right that she has that many dogs, yes that is her right unless is there a law in Austrailia about owning 4 dogs? As for if its morally right, I don't know, like I said I'm just grateful no child was involved.
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Old May 27th, 2004, 06:27 PM
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have not heard anything this morning, but on the news last night the two doggies were still on the run in the bush like little bandits. i am really really surprised they have not had any protest at all, really surprising that the animal lib people arent there, i wouldnt be within a mile of that place.
even if it not against the law to own 4 dogs, i think it is totally irrisponsible to do so, for this very reason. and when a silly woman has 4 muscle breeds and they do this it causes hell for other responsible dog owners. not to mention the horror of what an animal in this state goes through, poor dogs and then they get shot, it could have been avoided so easily.
and they are not pitbulls, they dont look like bulls but mastiffs, it is just not possible that they could have been, it is against the law, they were not registered and you just couldnt hid the four dogs of that breed from the council rangers in an urban environment.
poor puppies. it just stinks.and now more breeds of dogs get look at as if they are killers, laws become stricter and the general public disapproves.
they are sure to catch them soon though, the dogs are going to surface more the hungrier they get. and i worry if charlie ever needed help poeple would not because she is not a little toy breed and her breed has a rep and is on the list of dangerous dogs in the papers. really scary stuff
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Old May 27th, 2004, 07:49 PM
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Mel,why would GS be on a dangerous dog list,I don't think I've ever heard of a GS attacking people?
Here where I live you are allowed 2 dogs and 3 cats in a household,but the by-law is not enforced.
I can understand the dogs will have to be put down,but I can still pity them,right now they are probably running around confused and hungry,not realizing they did something wrong.It's a sad case from all sides but I hope someone will correct the error of calling them pit-bulls,even I know the difference between a pitt and a Mastiff.
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Old May 27th, 2004, 09:04 PM
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they put some stupid list in the news papers, GS was number 5 on the most dangerous, but it was ridiculous, they actually had labrador on it somewhere down the bottom, so i think they just want to get rid of or give bad reps to any big dog breed, doesnt matter what it is.
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Old May 27th, 2004, 09:48 PM
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You think a JRT would be #1 LMFHO
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Old May 27th, 2004, 11:07 PM
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Unfortunately Anita,they are.And they have been for many years.Even here in Canada..And I remember years ago when they were making the headlines.. ..Along with the Rottie and Dobe.Way before the Pits became a hot breed...And please LR don't take it wrong when I mean "hot"...By that I mean them getting into the wrong hands and the over breeding of them....
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Old May 27th, 2004, 11:37 PM
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I think maybe one of the reasons that these dogs were believed to be pitbulls is that if they are Bullmastiffs (I think that was written in the 1st post), some people probably figured that the "Bull" in Bullmastiff was for Pitbull, instead of Bulldog. Bullmastiffs could pass as pitbull crosses and that might be a reason. People who don't know breeds very well tend to generalize.

And Bullmastiffs are great dogs, I almost got one, but having 4... she couldn't have exercised them each equally everyday. I mean 1 is often hard to handle for a woman, so she probably could not walk more than one at a time (2 max max max!). And Bullmastiffs require a great deal of exercise. Dogs with too much energy are know to get into all kinds of trouble. It's just too bad this situation had to result to this. More dogs with bad reputations.
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Old May 28th, 2004, 11:17 AM
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And please LR don't take it wrong when I mean "hot"...By that I mean them getting into the wrong hands and the over breeding of them
I couldn't agree more,mona! Not only that, but these trashy, greedy people are mixing them with mastiffs and other guardian breeds and that is bad news indeed!!
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Old May 28th, 2004, 12:11 PM
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Thumbs down Get the facts about breeds

First of all Bullmastiffs do not look like pits they are larger and less aggressive. I do not have a problem with pits or staffs they are great dogs it is about the owners. I have owned a Neapolitan Mastiff and I now own a English Mastiff and these dogs are very laid back, also suppose to be aggressive.They would only be aggresssive if someone attacked them or me then it would be another story. My Neo used to get bit by a JRT constantly in the park and never did a thing about it the owner thought it was cute, I think it is ignorant and breeds aggression in his already aggressive dog. I did say to him I don't think you will be laughing if one day my guy has had enough and bites your dog back, he never did. He had the nerve to tell me I should not own these types of dogs because they are aggressive and you can not train them properly and will most likely turn me. How ignorant can one dog owner be but this is the type of attitude of stupid uneducated people.
These pit if that is what they are will have to be put down for safety reasons they could not be trusted now. If the owner is the one who was attacked by here own dogs I would call that just desserts she has obviously brought these dogs up to be aggressive and it is her own fault. If they are not hers than I feel sorry for her and the owner should be paying all the costs involved for her and the dog that was killed, and the cost to the city for the capture of the dogs and any other damage and injury they cause.
I also agree with the other comment about the dogs that have the highest incidents of biting is the ever popular golden.
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Old May 28th, 2004, 12:16 PM
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My Neo used to get bit by a JRT constantly in the park
SEE!! Those little buggers!!

There are 2 of them on my block and both of them have tried to bite Sadie and Honey when she was here!

I'd love to see the headline

"Vicious JRT attacks group of PBT, Rottie's, GSD and Mastiffs"

Quite comical but very serious! Myself I've had a JRT bite at my leg just walking by and the owner laughed thinking it was oh so cute!!!

These dogs can injure as well and yet because they're so small it's not an issue!

I bet statistically there have been more dog bites treated that involve JRT's or other smaller breeds as opposed to all the 'questionable' larger breeds combined.

I would LOVE to find that out!
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Old May 28th, 2004, 12:21 PM
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I'm interested in bite stats too, and from all the info I've been able to glean, more bites are inflicted by cocker spaniels and Labs, particularly where kids are involved, than by any other breeds.

I believe this is because people get these breeds and feel it's okay to leave small children alone with them ("Oh, it's okay - it's a Lab")

With the spaniels, I think people think that their cute and adorable appearance means they can't possibly bite.

This is JMO.

Edited to add article I found interesting:
Bad dogs?
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Old May 28th, 2004, 12:22 PM
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I agree LR completely!!!
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Old May 28th, 2004, 02:48 PM
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I totally think that it's the level of responsibility of the owner that affects a dogs demeanour. As for German Shepherds, I think they can be just as dangerous as any other breed if left to their own devices and not cared for or trained properly.

Just last week I posted on here about an absolutely terrifying incident some
friends of mine and myself had with two of the GSDs in our neighbourhood.

As for Mastiff's I think the same thing holds. They are a big breed, and very strong. But just like the tiny Jack Russells, if the owner doesn't treat them with responsibility and excercise them, spend time and love them, protect them from others and themselves, they can end up acting out and harming someone or another dog. About two years ago, a girl (name was Shenika White, you might have heard about it) was attacked by two Mastiffs about 8 blocks away from my house and they almost ripped her face off her head. The idiot owner left them in the back yard unattended and they found their way out. After the media hype was in full bloom, the owner of the dogs said it was the girls fault for her "negligence". How could she be negligent when she was walking down the street with a friend doing nothing, and he was many blocks away at his home.

As far as bite stats go, keep in mind they are just that. Stats. Interpretive, and without knowing the guidelines/information pools used to generate the stats, you can end up making assumptions that can be unfounded in fact.

A friend told me that they saw that black labs were atop the list in this one bite figure she saw. When she saw the data, she also noticed that they were the predominant dog in the data set because of the popularity of the breed. If you interview 1000 dog owners, and have 500 black labs in the data set (I just made those number up obviously), it is possible to find they have the highest bite ratio based on the fact that they have the highest numbers in the data pool. However statistical analysis was the only course in university that I failed so don't believe anything I say about it. Anyhoo, this is taking me back to that class and making me want to cry so I'm going to stop now.

And Mastiff lover, I totally agree it's crap when smaller dogs are getting at your bigger dog and having the owners think it's cute. That happens to Bob and I all the time. I try to have respect for the elderly, but when these older women think it's funny that their herd of little dogs has surrounded us and are nipping at Bob's legs while he's on leash....... My respect turns to anger and frustration. I've told more than one of them that if their dog bites him again, I'm letting go of the leash and whatever happens, happens. Then they call Bob viscious. He's standing there stoic as a tree, and not making a sound...but he's the viscious one? Please.
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Old May 28th, 2004, 03:25 PM
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Totally true! I have never heard of someone calling in animal control over a tiny dog bitting them, just because the dog is small and it would seem rediculous to call. But I know a lot a people who call animal control when a big dog (minding his own business) scares them - not bite them. So how could statistics ever be right on? I have a bachelor's degree in criminology and this reminds me of a course I took in which we discussed the "black number", this is a number in statistics that has to be guessed, because not all crimes are reported or caught! And it's the same thing for dogs. Probably 90% of all bites are not reported! This gives people a distorted image of what some breeds are like, and that's really sad.
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Old May 28th, 2004, 03:37 PM
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Total agreement its not right and its not fair, but thats why as owners of large breed dogs we have to take it more seriously than small breeds because they can do way more damage than a small dog.
But any large breed we've had were way more patient than the small ones but then again we never allowed our large breeds to get away with attitude.
Small dog owners over indulge them because they're so cute and most of them are way more tempermental. Our little shih tzu is more growly than our Rottie but we don't let either get away with it.
This reminds me on the weekend Dixie (the shih tzu) growled at my youngest and before I could say anything Abbey (the rottie) was up and over there between the two and pushing at Dixie. It was priceless and she's only 7 months old, but she also knows its not allowed. Gee I might have the best babysitter yet!! ( Just teasing!!)
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Old May 28th, 2004, 04:27 PM
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Get the facts about breeds

I do have one more thing to say about children being bitten and this has happened to me. I used to live in a house and I would leave my dog out back in our fenced and locked yard and the little demon that lived next door used to torment her through the fence with sticks and anything else that was around. I could not figure out why she was starting to get really edgy around kids she had always liked them. One day I caught the little bugger poking at her with a stick, so I dragged him home and told his mother what he was doing and she did not seem to think this was important and I should leave the kid alone. So I told her that I was reporting these incidents to the police and the Humane Society, so that when he gets bit it would be on record what the kid was doing. She told me not to be so dramatic well the kid did get bit not by my dog but another dog also in his own backyard. The kid recieved 10 stiches to his arm. Well of course she freaked out and wanted the dog put down. The dog owners in the neighbourhood all went to court and told there stories and I brought proof of reports to the police and humane society. We were lucky the judge was a dog owner as well, the dog was not put down or muzzelled. The owners also did not have to pay any medical bills. The judge did lay into the parents and the child about his behaviour and told them that he is lucky he was not bitten before this. I see kids teasing dogs all the time and bottom line is that the dog is the one who pays because parents don't teach their children respect and how to approach animals. I know that this is not always the case and there are other situations but this is pretty common.
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Old May 28th, 2004, 04:48 PM
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My son has a little JRT(Kita) and he thinks it's just hilarious playing tug of war with her,she'll growl and show her teeth and could easily be nippy,
I don't approve,but it's not my dog.He also loves it when Kita runs after bigger dogs in the dog-park,he thinks his little dog is sooo brave and full of spunk
I believe the problem is,the bigger the dog the worse the damage,Kita could take a chunk out of your leg,but probably could not kill you,like a bigger dog could.
One day,Kita might encounter a dog who will not put up with her and then we'll see how proud my son(not a boy,42yrs old) will be.
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Old May 28th, 2004, 04:55 PM
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Mastifflover, you are 100% right. It is definitely up to the parents to teach there kids about dogs. Its a good thing you and your neighbors had proof. But its not just kids we've witnessed some adults behaving that way too!
Thats why with big breeds we have to be careful because of people like that.
Again its not fair or right but thats one of the extra responsibilities we have. Most fairly intelligent people know this some don't who then make it harder for some breeds and owners.
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Old May 28th, 2004, 07:26 PM
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from the sydney morning herald- Pitbull pair shot dead
May 28, 2004 - 6:05PM


Two pitbull terriers who provoked terror in a semi-rural Sydney community for a week after attacking their owner were shot by council rangers today.

Liverpool Council said the dogs were destroyed after all other efforts to catch them had been exhausted.

The dogs, along with two others that have been impounded, mauled their owner at her Racemosa Ave home in Kemps Creek in Sydney's south-west on Saturday, when she tried to break up a dog fight.

The dogs killed a Jack Russell terrier before turning on the 33-year-old woman and her neighbour.

Council rangers had patrolled the area over the past week and traps were laid in an attempt to capture the dogs.

Residents were on alert and school children received escorts while the dogs were on the loose.

A council spokeswoman said the first dog was shot at 11.30am today, not far from its home. The second was shot in the same area at 1.45pm.

No decision had yet been reached on the fate of the other two dogs or about a litter of puppies removed from the property.




what, a litter of puppies, omg, i heard on the news she had 12 all together on the property, she was breeding them, oh just lovely.
oh and notice that two pitbull terriers 'provoked terror' oh yes thats right, they are just like humans, dogs, and they have malicious thoughts and reasons for everything.
you should have seen last nights news, they showed the dogs getting shot, the poor dogs were getting fired at and they were terrifed, oh that is just soooooo nice, those dogs were just so scared they were going crazy, it made me cry to see the distress the puppies went through, why the hell would they put that on the news?? they showed the brindle one running like mad under fire and the only thing they said was how hard it was to kill him as he blended well in the bush. why did they show it- what to just put a little more fear into people?? mongrels, oh those poor puppies, and you just wonder how many other freaks are doing this?? but poor dogs reputations, it really sucks. but oh no, do you hear them mention poor ownership, housing of dogs or anything that shows that the woman caused was responsible for the terror caused? no of course not. it is really disheartening to see the small minds of some in the world.... there is never a bad dog, just bad owners
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Old May 28th, 2004, 07:44 PM
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when i was a child i was attacked on three seperate occassions by my great aunts poodles, one incident required stitching to my face and a scar is still slightly visible. i tell you i am terrified of most poodles and jsut stay away from them. but because they were little dogs i was subjected to them repeatedly as the adults did not think they were really dangerous, dahhh. (same with the attacking geese , i hate geese).
but most parents dont let their kids near charlie even with my constant reassurance that she grew up with 2 kids and is great with kids, i would never leave a child unattended with her and yet her size puts them off, yet they are happy to let their kids strangle the little JRT next door who is a nasty boy at times. once charlie wa tied up outside a shop, i heard her scream then bark, i droped my groceries and ran to her, some little mongrel had kicked her whilst his older brother watched, their parents no where in site. i grabed him and told him i was going to kick him and then let charlie have a go, well i just wanted to scare him (wouldnt hit kids, well might consider it) he ran down the street crying and he never bothered us again. i dont trust most kids with her unless it is my nephew who adores her.
as far as statistics go, well as bill pointed out there is so much room for bias, it would be really hard to determine (yes i passed my statistics for sciences courses ), and little dog attacks are not as reported, but a really large scale, well planned study may just produce some worthwhile results.
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