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  #121  
Old May 28th, 2005, 11:57 PM
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I'll be sending mine in on Tuesday when I get back to work. In the meantime, it sounds as though you have enough on technicality to get this thrown out. I'm sure you'd like to get that done through the fact BSL is bogus, but I just think that might be something I'd keep in my back pocket.

Again, it can't be said enough...you're doing awesome!
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  #122  
Old May 29th, 2005, 12:45 AM
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The Toronto Star has a recent story about the problems of getting access to public information. Remember if some civil servant asks it is not their business why you want it. Get as many numbers as you can.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...acodalogin=yes

I won't be sending an email to Bryant or McGuinty as I'm sure I'm on their ignore list already from other emails I have sent.

There are an estimated 460 000 dog bites in Canada according to the CSA. If averaged that's over 1260 a day. There is no doubt that the media will print every story of a pit biting no matter how severe the injuries and you may find a pit attack story every day if you look.......where are the other 1259 bites. They aren't reported by the media. The Chocolate Lab that bit a kid in Niagara Falls that was reported online at one location only - a radio station. Iím sure we all know of local bites that werenít in the paper.

This is why BSL wonít likely survive a court challenge before a judge. When the Liberals refused to include a dog bite registry in Bill 132 they did so in order to hide the truth. Still a judge is very likely to believe that with so many bites occurring on a regular basis but only the pit bites making the paper that there are a hell of a lot of bites we aren't hearing about so maybe pits aren't 'inherently dangerous' after all.

Judges don't buy emotional arguments but they love numbers and they love facts....everything else is BS. Once again.....good luck to you.
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  #123  
Old May 29th, 2005, 01:23 AM
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http://www.petfinders.org/pet.cgi?ac...=0&tmpl=&stat=

Here is another dog thought has gone through a case of mistaken identity.
  #124  
Old May 29th, 2005, 02:34 AM
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Thanks for the links!!! The Access to Information was also printed in our local newspaper TODAY! Man that felt good! On Monday they'll be terrified not to give us the information.

Thanks for the link on that poor pup... We'll definitely add it to the area that we're building for stories on dogs effected by BSL. We need A LOT of those types of stories.

Jen

www.savinglily.com
  #125  
Old May 29th, 2005, 02:37 AM
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theres a good, or I should say, really sad story about Taco on the BSL thread. You may already know about it since your intouch with Advocates for the Underdog. If not I can find it for you.
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  #126  
Old May 29th, 2005, 12:07 PM
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2 more faxes comming your way today
  #127  
Old May 29th, 2005, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by researchbulls
http://www.petfinders.org/pet.cgi?ac...=0&tmpl=&stat=

Here is another dog thought has gone through a case of mistaken identity.
OMG! That's my dog Lady's twin!! They say he's a Fox Terrier mix, and so is Lady. I admit then that I am thankful I don't live in Ontario.

This whole thing just sickens me.

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  #128  
Old May 29th, 2005, 04:46 PM
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Bsl Is In Effect All Over Canada

It's time to scare you all into action... Remeber I was saying that BSL is spreading and it's spreading to more breeds?

The official list of BSL legislation in Canada:

Winnipeg and MacDonald, Manitoba - Pitbull BSL

New Brunswick has been drafting BSL legislation since January 29th, of this year.

Edmonton Alberta has already enacted a light BSL

The Village of Clavet in Saskachewan has enacted BSL - Pitbulls

Ontario BSL-Pitbull Cities include Brantford, Lakeshore, Kitchener-Waterloo, Midland, Powassan, Vaughn, Windsor

Quebec BSL-Pitbull and/or Rottweilers and/or Mastiffs cities include Sherbrooke, Saint-Jean-sur-Richilieu, Lachine, Kirkland, Outremont, Saint Genevieve

Nova Scotia - BSL- Pitbull Clark's Harbour, Guysborough County

Prince Edward Island - BSL - Pit Bulls and Rottweilers - Montague

Everyone move to Newfoundland or do something!!! Those are the ones already in, it doesn't mean there isn't one being drafted in every city in every province in Canada.

Nobody is safe until we can get BSL completely abolished and out-lawed in Canada.
  #129  
Old May 29th, 2005, 06:04 PM
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Don't forget Chapleau Ontario!!
Actually in this weeks paper the major story is all about the municipal by-laws for pets. Here is the article:

"Although a kitten or puppy may be too cute to resist, they come with a lot of responsibility.
Pets demand a lot of time and attention, as well as expense, in order to keep them healthy, happy and also keep them from being a nuisance to the neighbourhood.
An added expense associated with pets is the municipal license, which must be purchased every year. Irresponsible pet owners may face more expenses due to charges stemming from neglect of rules and regulations outlined in the municipal by-laws. It is also more expensive if your pet is considered dangerous or a vicious breed.
Dangerous or vicious breed dogs must not be allowed to breed and must be spayed or neutered. This type of pet must be leashed, muzzled or kenneled at all times, whether on the owner's property or on public property. A sign, warning of the existance of a dangerous or vicious breed of dog, must be posted by the owner.
Vicious breeds are banned in our community since 2003 and only those that were acquired before that year are allowed, with the prior stated conditions. These unacceptable breeds are American Pitbull Terrier American Staffordshire Terrier Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Rottweiler and Mastiff. A dangerous dog is one that has done something without warrant a Notice of Caution.
Any household is not allowed to own or care for more than two dogs and/or cats. Only a kennel is allowed to house more than two of each of these animals with the appropriate licensing.
Dog and cat owners are responsible for picking up after their pets (poop & scoop) and to keep them on a leash at all times when thery are not on the owner's property. Cats must have a collar with the license attached. When on the owner's property dogs that are tied out must not be able to enter anyone else's yard or reach the sidewalk. Our neighbours and their children must be able to walk without worrying about stepping in something or being jumped on by someone elses dog. Not everyone appreciates a friendly dog.
Excessive barking is also a problem which is addressed in the municipal by-law pertaining to excessive noise and is enforced by the OPP in partnership with the By-Law Officer.
Dogs and cats that are not tied or fenced in, will be picked up by the By-Law officer and the owner will have to pay a fine and possibly veterinarian fees. Dogs and cats are brought to the municipal pound where they are kept approximately 3 days.
The pound has 3 kennels and a large outdoor pen. Cats tend to occupy the pound more consistantly than dogs do. The township has humane live traps for cats that may be borrowed by citizens who are encountering problems with a nuisance cat.
Pets who run free throughout the neighbourhood are not only bothersome but may also face dangers of their own such as abuse, vehicles and exposure to poisonus substances. Being a responsible neighbour is just common courtesy. It isn't cruel to secure your pet on your property but it may be cruel not to!


Okay, long article, but NOWHERE do they mention what happens to the dogs and cats after the 3 days in the pound (i.e., SHOOT THEM and toss them into the DUMP). Nither do they encourage providing shelter, food and water for your pet when tied out. I think I'll be writing a letter to the editor for next weeks edition... and how dumb is it to allow only 2 dogs and/or cats per house hold??!!
We have three dogs and a cat - if they told us to get rid of one or more we'd do just like you Jen and fight and possible leave town. NO WAY is anyone taking any of my babies away!!!
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Last edited by Loraxp; May 29th, 2005 at 06:10 PM.
  #130  
Old May 29th, 2005, 07:53 PM
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Two more coming from me tomorrow!
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  #131  
Old May 29th, 2005, 08:10 PM
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All I can say is... Our goverment is run by flipping idiots. On the llighter side... I owed the goverment $40 or so in taxes. I sent it to Paul Martin and told him to take it out of the millions they stole. Think I am going to be audited..
  #132  
Old May 29th, 2005, 08:23 PM
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Ok...a stupid question, and I'm so sorry for not knowing this one!

What does BSL stand for? I have been thinking you were all using it as a slang term for "Bull ***** Law".
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  #133  
Old May 29th, 2005, 08:26 PM
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BSL=Breed Specific Legislation
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  #134  
Old May 29th, 2005, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDG
BSL=Breed Specific Legislation
Thanks! It's good not to be in the dark.
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  #135  
Old May 29th, 2005, 09:14 PM
JenSteele JenSteele is offline
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Thanks for the update on Chapleau, I've added it. That's the most comprehensive list of registered breeds I've seen banned yet. This is crazy.

Thanks for the faxes folks! We now have 123.. need at least 1000 keep 'em comin!!!

The first round are going out tomorrow.

You all rock!! I can't believe how well everyone is doing at getting the word out!

On the site, we've posted on the first page to the right, the current cities again and all of the suggestions from people who've been signing petitions and faxing in letters on how to financially cripple a city that has BSL... if anyone would like to post this on their website please contact sandra@2gogroup.com

Thanks

Jen
  #136  
Old May 29th, 2005, 09:25 PM
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Jen, Ive started a thread on the BSL page to ask for people to help us find and go through the committee hearings, if you get a sec, could you please give us feedback as to the specifics of the info that you need.
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  #137  
Old May 29th, 2005, 10:59 PM
JenSteele JenSteele is offline
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New Photos Of Lily Up On First Page - You Be The Judge

There are new, colour clear photos of Lily on the page. Scroll to about the middle, and I've explained the picture and what we're pointing out in each one.

http://www.savinglily.com

Let me know your thoughts.

I'll go back over to that BSL thread in about an hour.. we're still sorting through pictures...


Jen
  #138  
Old May 29th, 2005, 11:06 PM
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Shes a beauty I bet she feels like velvet. She doesn't look very pitbull like either.
  #139  
Old May 29th, 2005, 11:18 PM
JenSteele JenSteele is offline
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Thanks She's really velvety when she hasn't been rolling in the dirt we're digging up for the garden.

Are there other angles anyone think we should display?
  #140  
Old May 30th, 2005, 07:25 AM
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With all that's going on with Lily, and I'm sure will soon be going on all over Ontario, I wonder if Doggie DNA would help these situations? Is there a way through DNA testing wethere these dogs are Pit Bulls or not??
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  #141  
Old May 30th, 2005, 07:30 AM
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I think the angles look good but I am no expert, what about using a digital camera to take a short video clip of Lily or maybe even setting up a web cam of her.

......I was also thinking that the Boston Terrier looks somewhat similar to a pit bull
http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/dog...nterriers.html

does anyone else see it.
  #142  
Old May 30th, 2005, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happycats
With all that's going on with Lily, and I'm sure will soon be going on all over Ontario, I wonder if Doggie DNA would help these situations? Is there a way through DNA testing wethere these dogs are Pit Bulls or not??
No. DNA was ruled out early when this Bill 132 heated up. However DNA can be used to confirm bloodlines. That is to prove that a dog has a common link with some other pit bull.
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  #143  
Old May 30th, 2005, 11:15 AM
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But breeds of dogs aren't distinquishable by DNA they are all K9, so are you saying that they can be shown to be "related" to another "pit bull"? Im not clear as this is the first time Ive heard this. I think what your saying is that if a dog, any breed, were related to another dog, any breed, then that could be proven through DNA. If so, if Lilys parents were a pure bred boxer and a pure bred lab then if that could be proven through DNA she could not be a Pit bull. Or have I misunderstood?
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  #144  
Old May 30th, 2005, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babyrocky1
But breeds of dogs aren't distinquishable by DNA they are all K9, so are you saying that they can be shown to be "related" to another "pit bull"? Im not clear as this is the first time Ive heard this. I think what your saying is that if a dog, any breed, were related to another dog, any breed, then that could be proven through DNA. If so, if Lilys parents were a pure bred boxer and a pure bred lab then if that could be proven through DNA she could not be a Pit bull. Or have I misunderstood?
From what I understand (CyberKitten maybe can explain this):

There is nothing to say that a lab is different than a pit in DNA. However if you have DNA from the mother you can prove to a certain degree that the pups are from that mother or at least related to that mother.

So if you had Lily's parents you could prove she is their offspring. Of course they would have to accept that the boxer and the lab were exactly that.

Found this link: http://www.akc.org/dna/index.cfm

The AKC DNA Database and Parentage Verification

Comparison of the DNA profiles of a dam, sire, and pup(s) will determine, with greater than 99% confidence, whether the pups are from the tested dam and sire. The AKC DNA database examines the parentage of all AKC DNA Certified registered dogs and litters whelped on or after January 1, 2000. When problems are discovered, the DNA staff works with breeders to determine correct parentage at the breeder's expense.
.........
Furthermore, AKC DNA Profiles cannot determine the breed of a dog.


CK?
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Last edited by twodogsandacat; May 30th, 2005 at 11:45 AM.
  #145  
Old May 30th, 2005, 12:15 PM
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She looks like a lab/boxer cross to me!

And she has amazingly shiny coat! Good job in raising her Jen!
  #146  
Old May 30th, 2005, 12:48 PM
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Jen, I have spoken to the Queens Park Clerk and as I suspected they do not keep the records that you were asking for, so, do you actually want the records, or did you just want to confirm that they, the provincial government do not keep them? I do not believe that accurate records are kept and that is why an amendment to bill 132 was propsed, asking for a bite registry. It was refused by the Bryant clan cause they don't want to know, they just want to ban pit bulls. If you would like me to keep making calls for that kind of info, let me know, and Ill be on it ASAP.
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  #147  
Old May 30th, 2005, 12:57 PM
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Are Lily's parents puerebreeds, ckc recognised? With papers (wouldn't that be good)

IF I understand correctly the ckc can't identify a non breed dog. Ok.
And DNA can't identify breed, BUT can be used to identify parentage.

So..... could Lily be proved to be her parent's daughter by DNA, and then the CKC identify her parents a purebreed dogs, a lab and boxer? Wouldn't that give you a little loophole to prove she's not a pitbull? Would that stand up in court, if necessary?

I had to paraphrase whats been posted to make sure I understand correctly. Did I get it right?

Or does it seem like to easy an answer in a world thats a big giant grey area?


Jen, at first when I saw a pic of Lily (this weekend- you only had 1 or 2 on the site) I said to myself "If somebody told be she is a pitbull I'd probably believe them"

I'm not telling you this to make you upset- just to show how to the untrained eye -and believe me I've got 2 of those- it can be hard to tell, especially from a picture taken from and angle that skews the body shape. I'm a perfect example of your point. The people "identifying" your dog do NOT seem qualified.

The new pic you're postet are great, by the way.

*sigh*

The whole problem with BSL is, that its not. Breed Specific that is. They're banning a "breed" thats not a breed. Does that meen a yorkie-poo is at risk too? Yorkie-poo is not a breed, any more than the pitbull. A big giant grey area and no one with the balls, or qualifications to draw the line.

Best of luck, Jen.

I'm rooting for you.
  #148  
Old May 30th, 2005, 01:44 PM
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Very funny!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaykeija
All I can say is... Our goverment is run by flipping idiots. On the llighter side... I owed the goverment $40 or so in taxes. I sent it to Paul Martin and told him to take it out of the millions they stole. Think I am going to be audited..
I thought that was a riot!
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  #149  
Old May 30th, 2005, 01:53 PM
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Jen, I looked at the pics on your site and the first breed that came to mind wasn't lab, boxer, or pitbull. It was actually Rhodesian Ridgeback.

I pray that this bull ***** law gets thrown out. I am OUTRAGED at the fact that I live in a country that allows people to dictate to people based on NO FACTS! Bryant didn't listen to facts, but passed the law anywas. Thats a dictatorship, not a democracy. Here in Calgary, we don't have any type of BSL, yet. I've heard talks of it on the news, but so far nothing I know of. It is more like a plague than a law. Once one city does it, the rest of the country gets on borad, and it's because of uneducated people that we're losing our freedoms and rights.

I have 1 heeler cross, and one rescued heeler that the rescue I got her from believes is purebred, and she has the head shape of a bull terrier. Now, heeler's are bred from bull terriers, among other breeds like digos, rough collies, and dalmations. Does this mean that a pit bull ban will affect any pure bred dog that's bred from a "pit bull", just because I don't have papers?? Even if I had papers, wouldn't that still not matter because she's bred from a pit bull?? That's ABSURD!! That's a whole other breed, suffering needlessly.

I pray that BSL doesn't come here, but I think it's just a matter of time. I wish you all the good luck in the world. You are a doggy saviour! I admire your fight and determination, and I can't wait until the KWHS just gives up on this stupid ban!!

Oh, and Shaykeija,

Quote:
On the llighter side... I owed the goverment $40 or so in taxes. I sent it to Paul Martin and told him to take it out of the millions they stole. Think I am going to be audited..
That's HILARIOUS!! I love it! I got a huge tax bill to, and I was like, who's gonna pay me back the thousands stolen from me by the government?? I should do up a fake bill for all the money those turds have taken from me to fund their lavish lifestyles. *******s!!
  #150  
Old May 30th, 2005, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heeler's rock!
Jen, I looked at the pics on your site and the first breed that came to mind wasn't lab, boxer, or pitbull. It was actually Rhodesian Ridgeback.
We adopted a Rhodesian Ridgeback \ Boxer mix. When I saw the face shot I thought Ďoh noí . So yes that face could definitely have some Rhoady in it. The body is a little shorter and squatter than mine though.

The reality is that the reverse onus laws really place too much emphasise on what isnít known and canít be proven. One test for reverse onus laws is the possibility that an innocent person could be convicted. As Bill 132 has possible jail time attached the situation is that many could be charged with breaking the law without even knowing it applied to them as there is no mechanism to have your dog checked or cleared ahead of time. Once again, only when the courts rule on it will the general population know that Bryantís an idiot.
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Last edited by twodogsandacat; June 27th, 2005 at 12:35 PM.
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