Designer breed pics and info

[Draughty]

Have I had to eutanize an animal..yes.. one that just because it didn't have a home? No .. what's the difference..I think your values and mine are seriously at odds.

I do not value animals..any animal at the level of human..is it ethical to breed purebreds or hybrids or mutts beyond the level of demand?

Let me be clear here... NO!

Please understand WHAT I am saying is not to condemn or praise your work at rescue organizations.. I find that totally laudable..do I work at a rescue shelter..no.. I have 7 kids 2 grandkids and a form of paralysis in my left leg.. I am busy and not healthy.. what I do want..is to have a pup that is not going to exacerbate my allergies any more than is necessary..and poodle or maltese crosses that shed very very little are much better for that... that is all I am asking..can I find a dog that at a shelter that fits all of those needs..is small enough for our household AND has the temperament to deal with all the little kids coming and going for my wifes piano classes AND can deal with my son who is autistic and 18 going 5? Not likely... the ony one that comes close was recommended to go a home with a retired couple since it didn't deal well with kids..
What I CAN do ..is get one of the less allergy irritating pups already in this world and give it good home..isn't THAT acceptable..or should I wait til it is sent to a shelter?

[Bailey_]

Originally Posted by Draughty

Have I had to eutanize an animal..yes.. one that just because it didn't have a home? No .. what's the difference..I think your values and mine are seriously at odds.
[/SIZE]

I'm surprised by this comment, because having to euthanize any animal is horrible. It's sad, emotional, and very hard to do. Having to euthanize a perfectly healthy, loving animal because no one wanted it? Let me be clear. This is VERY different.

can I find a dog that at a shelter that fits all of those needs..is small enough for our household AND has the temperament to deal with all the little kids coming and going for my wifes piano classes AND can deal with my son who is autistic and 18 going 5?

I suppose we don't have the same shelters/rescues nearby, because from my experience your 'terms' for a dog aren't that odd nor are they rare. When I was looking for our second dog, many of the rescue adoption coordinators referred me to OTHER rescues that they thought may have a better selection of dogs. (We have a 15 month old daughter and also had our own personal reasons for getting the type of dog we were looking for.) It took us FOUR months to find our beautiful lab mix, who we eventually adopted from a rescue three hours away.

But Draughty, I'm not going to argue with you about whether or not you need to adopt from a shelter. I'm just trying to explain why we - here at pets - are telling you we don't support mainstream breeding. Too many dogs need homes, period, it's that simple.

I applaud your effort to search for a dog that suited your family, I know it can be challenging.

[luckypenny]

I was raised with purebred dogs but now, as an adult with my own family, three wonderful breed mixes own me. One of which you'd consider a "hybrid." She's still a mix to me. All were shelter dogs, no better no worse than the dogs I grew up with, and I wouldn't trade them in for the world.

For any visitors to this thread, we love animals period. Whether they be purebreds or mixed breeds. What we're against is unscrupulous profit motivated breeding to fill consumer demands, especially when the novelty wears off and these living, breathing, feeling beings become disposable like last week's garbage.

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by Draughty

I do not value animals..any animal at the level of human..is it ethical to breed purebreds or hybrids or mutts beyond the level of demand?

Let me be clear here... NO!

Sooooo, you are against breeding then , because anybody breeding today is breeding beyond demand. There are thousands of dogs and cats euthanized every day because they don't have homes. Supply exceeds demand.

[aslan]

Originally Posted by Draughty

Hyberbole does not impress an intelligent person.. silly to compare legal activity to illegal activity..please.. let's keep this above that level?

If i was having this conversation WITH an intelligent person and not someone who is only here to twist words and stir up trouble I may have approached you differently. So lets make this clear so you understand. We never said there aren't purebreeds in rescue just not too many are purebreeds from a responsible breeder( its in your friggen contract that you MUST return an unwanted pet to the breeder.)

If you READ what you agreed to when you joined the forum you would have seen that it says in REAAAAALLY big letters that most of the members here are pro spay/neuter.

At this point I have had enough of this stupidity and am willing to get in trouble for it. Draughty people have distinct ways of writing, you can change your name as many times as you like, several of us know that you have been here before and banned not once but twice. My suggestion to you now is instead of coming to a pro spay/neuter site stirring up crap with people who spend thousands of dollars, hours and tears looking after the unwanted pets of your brilliant idea. Please go and create your own forum, enlist as large a member base as you like and preach the wonder of breeding mutts all you like. For those of us that love this forum, our friends here and being able to support each other. We'll keep our messed up, one sided ignorant forum just the way it is.

yes i could add you to my ignore list as could the others, but this wouldn't prevent you from continuing to post this garbage and conveying a message to new comers that we don't want. Plain and simple if you own an animal, get it fixed. leave the breeding to those that not only know how to do it, but care about the animals.

[14+kitties]

Draughty - In case you are having problems finding the rules.........

http://www.pets.ca/forum/announcement.php?f=10&a=12

This discussion should have ended on May 25.

[Draughty]

Originally Posted by aslan

If i was having this conversation WITH an intelligent person and not someone who is only here to twist words and stir up trouble I may have approached you differently. So lets make this clear so you understand. We never said there aren't purebreeds in rescue just not too many are purebreeds from a responsible breeder( its in your friggen contract that you MUST return an unwanted pet to the breeder.)

If you READ what you agreed to when you joined the forum you would have seen that it says in REAAAAALLY big letters that most of the members here are pro spay/neuter.

At this point I have had enough of this stupidity and am willing to get in trouble for it. Draughty people have distinct ways of writing, you can change your name as many times as you like, several of us know that you have been here before and banned not once but twice. My suggestion to you now is instead of coming to a pro spay/neuter site stirring up crap with people who spend thousands of dollars, hours and tears looking after the unwanted pets of your brilliant idea. Please go and create your own forum, enlist as large a member base as you like and preach the wonder of breeding mutts all you like. For those of us that love this forum, our friends here and being able to support each other. We'll keep our messed up, one sided ignorant forum just the way it is.

yes i could add you to my ignore list as could the others, but this wouldn't prevent you from continuing to post this garbage and conveying a message to new comers that we don't want. Plain and simple if you own an animal, get it fixed. leave the breeding to those that not only know how to do it, but care about the animals.

Sorry Aslan I must have missed those REALLY big letters..but suffice it to say that just like you I am pro-spay/neuter as well..I have stated above that I would far prefer that all breeders be licensed and that NO dog leaving that facility would be leaving without being neutered/spayed ..

I am sorry to have upset you.. truth is I found this forum just this week and have never been here before..for the most part as I look around I see pet lovers of all types.. it is only here in the so called (and to me highly misrepresented) designer dog area that I find such contentious behaviour.. if my manner of writing reminds you of someone else, could it be that you simply lump all of those who might disagree with you on some specific forms of breeding into one and the same person? I would think you have some deep seated hostility towards those like me who might just beg to differ on reasonable grounds.

I find Aslan that I would like to find more of your namesakes traits in your posts and in your spirit.. I saw the name and was delighted to see that someone was using the great Aslan as their moniker only to discover a bitter and contentious soul who must have undergone great torment in the area of pets period. I find that fact to have a couple of possible reasons and all of those would speak to great compassion for pets and for that reason I will not mock you or make fun of you ..but will only laud your efforts in attempting to help pets not have to undergo euthanasia for any reason except for the relief of pain illness or extreme old age.

My compliments to those who over the last couple have read past my support of 'hybrids' to the points I make about those dogs being neutered asap after birth.. I do not promote irresponisible breeding..

I do however contend with the notion that each and EVERY dog being bred on this specific day will go to a home or would not have caring homes to go to. the point being that supply and demand are out of balance..not that supply of these dogs completely unused and uncared for.

Yes..if possible and if I can find a pet within reasonable distance and that fits our needs I will do so. However I may keep one of those living and lovable pups that has already been born from going to a shelter for lack of a home..

Thanks for your comments..I do take them into consideration..I am however an independent thinker who gathers all the facts and all of the opinions..not just one set from one group.. I can totally understand how those of you who are so involved in rescuing animals from puppy mills etc would find the idea of bringing any puppies into the world to be anathema or worse.

I think however that would be much like going into the backstreets of Bombay or any other overcrowded underpriveleged part of the world and declaring that no one in all the world should procreate because there are babies there dying of hunger and disease while in Montana or other parts of the world there are populations densities of less than a person per square mile and parents desparately seeking a child to adopt who would gladly take in those dying children if only the governing bodies of the various countries did not make it impossible to do so.

To stop all breeding would only eradicate dogs from the face of the earth..to regulate it may at least drive the puppy mills into a lesser existence.. to educate all people with the knowledge of how to care for and the knowledge of how to choose a pet that they can be sucessful with will do more in the long run.. to accomplish your goals..

If I could I would highly recommend reading the book Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell..apply it's principles to your cause.. be humble..be patient..be polite and be encouraging.. seriously if you apply the ideas Gladwell promotes in his book you may just find a simple small way that might be more productive in reducing pet overbreeding.. action.. words in the right places and combinations.. simple things can make HUGE differences in the perception others will have of your cause and in you own effectiveness...

I hope this helps..

[Draughty]

Originally Posted by Love4himies

Sooooo, you are against breeding then , because anybody breeding today is breeding beyond demand. There are thousands of dogs and cats euthanized every day because they don't have homes. Supply exceeds demand.

Personally I find this statement a bit ridiculous..no I am not totally against breeding.. it would preferable that pups were spoken for before breeding.. but that is difficult as well.. supply exceeds demand ..but not by 100% I would reckon.. I see far too many puppies being taken into homes and spoken for on the sites that attempting to sell the same breeds/hybrids you are so demeaning of .. breeders who do offer common sense recommendations and many (though not all unfortunately) demand a signed contract for spaying/neutering .. I would far rather that the spay/neuter contract be a prepaid session at a local vet but I don't see that happening as yet..but..with some reasonable encouragement that might come into realization in the near future..

Steps such as that.. supplying a paid for neutering or spaying could just be one step towards the goals of many of you.. myself included.

[aslan]

Originally Posted by aslan

Well it's wonderful to see we agree on a large portion of the issue, so lets just agree to disagree on the rest ok.

So now i think you should create a thread and post eleventy billion pictures of your penny so we can all oooooh and aaaaaw.

hmmmm apparantly you forgot this post, where i suggested we agree to disagree and hope this whole topic would close. Unfortunately this didn't happen so yes i did get upset. Just as the mighty Aslan would too, as for being bitter, not at all and if you knew me or anything about me you would know that. But when it comes to someone promoting any form of unneccessary breeding right now then yup like the mighty aslan I will fight to defend. I have rescued several animals over the years and recently battled for almost a year to help one with the help of every well educated member on heres help. Because of some moron thinking it was ok to just mass breed animals, then locking him in a cage for the first 6mths of his life I ended up finally having to destroy an animal i loved dearly and couldn't help. SO YES, i have a real issue with someone wanting to breed ANYTHING(purebred,hybrid, mutt). Walk in 14+'s, Luckypennys, HazelRunPacks, Frenchy's and most of all Benmax's shoes for a week and you will see why i and anyone else here is upset. If that makes me soulless then i'll be holding the door open for the others when they get there.

[Love4himies]

Originally Posted by Draughty

Personally I find this statement a bit ridiculous..no I am not totally against breeding.. it would preferable that pups were spoken for before breeding.. but that is difficult as well.. supply exceeds demand ..but not by 100% I would reckon.. I see far too many puppies being taken into homes and spoken for on the sites that attempting to sell the same breeds/hybrids you are so demeaning of .. breeders who do offer common sense recommendations and many (though not all unfortunately) demand a signed contract for spaying/neutering .. I would far rather that the spay/neuter contract be a prepaid session at a local vet but I don't see that happening as yet..but..with some reasonable encouragement that might come into realization in the near future..

Steps such as that.. supplying a paid for neutering or spaying could just be one step towards the goals of many of you.. myself included.

I don't think anybody is demeaning of mixed breeds on this site, we just love all animals. We just want people to stop breeding while there are wonderful, loving ones in the shelters being euthanized. That just picks my a$$ and in my mind contributes to the overpopulation of pets. I don't care what type of breeder you are.

Actually, I am a self proclaimed shelter/rescue snob and not shy saying I love being one. Don't care what type of pup or cat it is.


As for pups that are "spoken for before breeding", well don't you know it, they end up in shelters too.

I don't understand why you think a "hybrid" is not a mutt?

[onster]

I have been following this conversation for a while and it's truly making my head spin. I apologise in advance for the length of this.

Draughty, regardless of how eloquently you put it, you are going in circles.

You speak of hybrids being different than random crosses, but as hazel told you the intent does not change the genetic outcome.

Take for example broccolini, the vegetable which is a hybrid between broccoli and chinese kale. It resulted from crosses and recrosses over several generations using traditional hand pollination. 7 years later they came up with 'Asparation', later trademarked as broccolini. Broccolini has seeds, you can grow it now and consistently get the same vegetable. Biologically it is a new species.

Only in this context, whereby a hybrid is essentially a completely different species, then yes I agree with you - hybrids *are* different than random crosses.

However you seem to be mixing and matching different definitions for the word 'hybrid' based on your current arguement. You cant have both worlds...either a hybrid is a new species and not interchangeable with the word 'cross' or it is. A maltipoo or a labradoodle or whatever 'designer breed' out there is no different than the random (amazing) dog I can pick up at the spca.

You argue that if we knew anythng about agriculture etc we would know that they use hybrids all the time. Well I know just a tad, and I agree with you. There is a big difference though. Take my previous example, if in the initial crosses of broccoli with kale they got some unsatisfactory product the worst thing that happens to the failed attempt is it gets thrown out. If the same happens with a 'pure cross' of a poodle with a maltese...can they just throw the rejects out? Ethically, no. Does it happen? Yes. Even if they are not 'thrown out', many get dubious homes or owners who think the pup is cute but nobody, not even the 'breeder', can tell them what to expect.

Now the producers of broccolini werent stupid, they continued to cross, recross etc etc till they were able to come up with new species that produced seed so that they could supply the world with their new vegetable. It may have taken 7 years but it was done. With crosses in the industry I think the main goal will always be to create a new species...relying on lady luck would never cut it when you have to stock grocery shelves. I wouldn't be too happy if one day my broccolini looked more like broccoli and then the next day it was more like kale. Consistency is key.

Another problem with part of your argument is that you don't want a maltipoo mated with a maltipoo, you want a pure matlese crossed with a pure poodle every time and I quote:

to get a pure cross you must have two differing purebred breeds not two hybrids..anyone passing off the progeny of two hybrid dogs as another hybrid is ignorant, unscrupulous or both!

. So using your method of thinking a new species would never be formed, there would always be rejects and always be an inconsistency with regards to the outcome. Within the same litter you would likely have large differences!

If my friend has a maltipoo and I think wow, look at that tempermant..it's so happy go lucky or whatever and thought: I want a a maltipoo! When I go to a 'breeder' to get one I'm likely not to find those same traits in their litter. Why? Because those traits are not fixed with a cross (as hazel explained). And its not just personality traits but physical traits (like shedding or being hypoallergenic). So why breed these crosses in the first place? Either get a pure bred *or* get a wonderful mutt from the shelter.


Now, just to be clear, I am not advocating forming a true new species of 'maltipoos' or any other dog but I am just presenting the problem with your arguements.

Lastly, please don't question the intelligence of our members. We may not all use fancy words (u do have a nice vocab), or formal writing styles but that doesn't mean we're not smart. I'm sorry but your writing style reminds me of when my little brother writes essays. He uses big words because he thinks it will impress his teachers/profs...but half the time it blatantly obvious he's covering up his weak arguements with his thesaurus.

[Bailey_]

To stop all breeding would only eradicate dogs from the face of the earth..to regulate it may at least drive the puppy mills into a lesser existence.. to educate all people with the knowledge of how to care for and the knowledge of how to choose a pet that they can be sucessful with will do more in the long run.. to accomplish your goals..

Draughty, I respect most everyones opinions - whether I agree with it or not - and try to understand where people are coming from when they write something. But that comment totally got under my skin.

My JOB is to educate people with the knowledge of how to care for and choose a pet successfully and maintain a wonderful relationship with their dog afterwards. I spend most of my days with owners and their pets, helping them to understand their pet better and ensure that they KEEP it.
Not to mention all our hardworking members who are constantly rescuing abandoned, abused, or neglected animals - using money out of their own pockets to ensure the animal can have a better future. This happens BECAUSE OF OVERBREEDING first and foremost. Whether or not you believe it can be stopped is a mute issue, IMO. It's what we dedicate our lives to doing, to hopefully help solve part of the problem.

To have someone tell us that our lives, our goals, the things we are so passionate about - is silly? Or lame? Or we're wasting our time? Is just bad taste, and I'm sure you can understand where WE are coming from.

Please don't start making assumptions that we don't do all we can in every aspect of our lives to make this world a better place for dogs and cats alike. That is taking things a bit too far, don't you think?

[LavenderRott]

Originally Posted by Draughty

Have I had to eutanize an animal..yes.. one that just because it didn't have a home? No .. what's the difference..I think your values and mine are seriously at odds.

I do not value animals..any animal at the level of human..is it ethical to breed purebreds or hybrids or mutts beyond the level of demand?

Let me be clear here... NO!

Please understand WHAT I am saying is not to condemn or praise your work at rescue organizations.. I find that totally laudable..do I work at a rescue shelter..no.. I have 7 kids 2 grandkids and a form of paralysis in my left leg.. I am busy and not healthy.. what I do want..is to have a pup that is not going to exacerbate my allergies any more than is necessary..and poodle or maltese crosses that shed very very little are much better for that... that is all I am asking..can I find a dog that at a shelter that fits all of those needs..is small enough for our household AND has the temperament to deal with all the little kids coming and going for my wifes piano classes AND can deal with my son who is autistic and 18 going 5? Not likely... the ony one that comes close was recommended to go a home with a retired couple since it didn't deal well with kids..
What I CAN do ..is get one of the less allergy irritating pups already in this world and give it good home..isn't THAT acceptable..or should I wait til it is sent to a shelter?

When my girls were in elementary school, I volunteered my time at the local shelter. Once a week, the shelter manager would walk through with us and we would discuss the adoptablity of each and every animal we had - from young puppies to older dogs, kittens we had held when they were born and old feral cats. At the end of the walk through, I would get to hold the animals that were less adoptable (usually anything older then 10 weeks as it was a small community) while the manager injected them with enough anesthetic to stop their hearts. People who do these things have a very different perspective on what you are talking about then you do. And since you seem to be a reasonable man, I am guessing that if you had this job for a week or two, you might too.

Right now, there are 2,836 poodles listed on Petfinder. There are 180 cockapoos. There are 764 maltese. There are 682 Bichons. There are 1,181 yorkshire terriers. These are all breeds recommended for those with allergies and I am betting that many of them would fit your requirements.

You have your dog. And we are very glad that you are happy with it, even though it doesn't sound like it. We just want you to know that there are other ways to find the kind of dog you are looking for without paying a breeder who isn't ethical and above board.

[Bailey_]

Originally Posted by LavenderRott

When my girls were in elementary school, I volunteered my time at the local shelter. Once a week, the shelter manager would walk through with us and we would discuss the adoptablity of each and every animal we had - from young puppies to older dogs, kittens we had held when they were born and old feral cats. At the end of the walk through, I would get to hold the animals that were less adoptable (usually anything older then 10 weeks as it was a small community) while the manager injected them with enough anesthetic to stop their hearts. People who do these things have a very different perspective on what you are talking about then you do. And since you seem to be a reasonable man, I am guessing that if you had this job for a week or two, you might too.

Right now, there are 2,836 poodles listed on Petfinder. There are 180 cockapoos. There are 764 maltese. There are 682 Bichons. There are 1,181 yorkshire terriers. These are all breeds recommended for those with allergies and I am betting that many of them would fit your requirements.

You have your dog. And we are very glad that you are happy with it, even though it doesn't sound like it. We just want you to know that there are other ways to find the kind of dog you are looking for without paying a breeder who isn't ethical and above board.

Well said, LR.

[14+kitties]

Draughty - gotta thank you for one thing. I, being of Scottish descent on my mom's side and Irish descent on my dad's always considered myself a bit of a "mutt". Nice to know I'm not a mutt. I am a hybrid.
Now how about we just put an end to this circle of redundancy that is going nowhere except for giving me a biatch of a headache!!! We believe one thing. You believe another. We can't change your mind obviously and I for one am done trying.

[JennieV]

I would just like to point out some things... Draughty, you came to this forum, you obviously have NOT read the rules and practically called well-respected members here names and have descended as far as dissing someone's nick name. You obviously don't want to hear other people's opinions, but are pushing your own, even if it makes no real sense. Your whole speech about kids, grandkids and disability is meant for what? to make you look more credible? LOL
And that part about volunteering at a shelter...What a bunch of baloney. If you did volunteer for one day - you would not argue with people here, but support them.

The point that you keep missing, that has been repeatedly brought to your attention:

WE LOVE PETS...ALL PETS.
WHAT WE ARE AGAINST IS BREEDING IRRESPONSIBLY, WHILE THOUSANDS OF OTHER LABRADOODLES, SCHNORKIES, MORKIES, CHI-TSUS AND OTHER X-KIES DIE EVERY SINGLE DAY. WE EDUCATE, WE PROMOTE SHELTERS. THAT'S ALL WE CAN DO AT THIS POINT.

I am using plain words, for I feel it's clearer without your elaborate and eloquent wording, that makes people's heads hurt. I hope you understand and stick around long enough to get to know these amazing people here, who give their lives every day to fight the current situation.

And if you choose to stay, please be a little more respectful.

Just my humble .

[BenMax]

I am glad I do not have internet at home as I would have been consumed in this thread....well maybe not since I was fundraising to help pay some vet bills for abandoned, neglected and abused dogs and cats....of all mixes and breeds.

Everyone here at pets love their animals whether they are mixed or pure. To us we really don't care. We support on another at our times of need and we discuss our experiences whether triumphant, sorrows, laughter and tears.

We also strongly know about the over population of purebreds, mixes and the likes, and we do our best to network amongst ourselves to find homes for animals in need...It is tough, long and strenious work but we pull together and sometimes are able to see miracles. This is our collective joys.

This weekend during the fundraiser, someone brought in an unwanted 'hybrid'. Sweet soul. We will help him. We will find him someone who will love him. That is our mission.

I will not under any circumstances promote breeding. Our society needs a break from that. I cannot tell you how many animals I have helped over the bridge, how many I could not help at all due to severe medical issues, how many I could not get into foster status. I could go on but I will refrain from doing so because I feel it pointless. Everyone knows.

I hope that one day you will understand why we are passionate about this subject matter. I hope that maybe one visit at a kill pound or at a shelter you will see what we see. Educating ourselves and forcing ourselves to learn and see is power. You will see that there are no words to say. The proof is there, right under our noses. There are some that will force themselves to look while there are others that will pretend that there is no problem.

Sleep or don't sleep....most of us don't sleep.

[lUvMyLaB<3]

BenMax, a real treasure you are..

Draughty, I don't foster dogs anymore at the moment, but am still very involved in rescue, I am not sure why you call us close minded, that we don't listen, it really is the very opposite if you took time getting to know people on here before attacking. It is sad that you don't have the experiences to see our side, and you will not be changing anyone's mind here, there is no point for you to try.

A responsible ethical breeder breeds their dogs, not very often, usually just a litter every couple years or so, but they do it for the love of the breed, to improve the breed, breeding dogs that are champions, and proven usually in many areas, they health test their dogs for everything under the sun, and no expense is spared, the choose carefully homes that will get a pup prior to the breeding, the pup goes home with a signed contract spay/neuter, microchip, shots, a health guaruntee. These are not the dogs you find in rescue, they must go back to them, and if they end up somewhere they should not be the breeder spares no expense it getting them back. Sure you see purebreds in rescue, however they are coming from irresponsible people, not the good ones. These people are motivated by a few things to breed, however, the money they will be paid is NOT one of them, they usually LOSE money on breeding dogs, it is a hobby that they support, not a hobby that supports them. Those perhaps are the breeders we encourage someone to support when looking for a dog, we are not purebred pushers, we discourage all else, but of coarse recommend and choose for ourselves rescue first and foremost.

I see your goal is that it is ok to breed a dog as long as it has a good home to go to. If people want and will pay for these pups and give them loving forever homes than it is a reason to breed. that sounds to me like the reasoning of someone not experienced or educated in this whole area.. There are already millions of similar crosses waiting for a home, for every pup born and given to a new home, one will die. How about NOT breed for any of these reasons, and give the ones waiting a home first. Having a cute well tempered dog, a dog that people ask you about and say they want one, the fact you can charge $500 a pup, the fact that all the pups get sold and none left behind, NONE of these are valid reasons to breed. I will never ever agree with breeding of hybrids, mutts, crosses ect, EVER, there is no reason, there are enough and the motivations of the people taking advantage of their dogs make me sick. So continue on with your fancy words and long posts, we will read them, but you are delusional to think you will even come close the changing the minds of anyone here.

Take my situation for example... I foster cats, Several times a year I get a pregnant mother that is close to delivering, to close for my vet to abort her, so I take them in, with my time and my energy and my money, I care for all of them, I raise them, give them all the medical care possible, then search for good homes. While I am doing this there are countless people letting their unfixed cat run free, they are letting their cats breed, then posting ads for cute kittens free to a good home, how can I compete with that??? The kittens that come from me are not free, I don't get a penny of any adoption fee, but I put out sometimes hundreds of dollars for each litter. How is it right for people to breed on purpose when I am giving so much to clean their mess up for them, so thanklessly.. It is the same with dogs, and I hope that you can open your eyes to see that. When there are people that suffer through heatbreak and give more of themselves than most even have to give to save the ones that suffer, how is it fair for a person to go and breed their dog to make a buck?

Spend a day in the shoes of some of the wonderful people on here. See if you have enough inside yourself to give for one day what they have been giving for years, just one day, then come back and tell me that you think we should breed a few thousand cockapoo's today. Go to the pound, pick the cutest dog on death row, and take him into the room, lie him on the cold table, and comfort him as he looks into your eyes thwaping his tail on the table because he thinks finally someone is here to love him, stroke him as he is injected and closes his eyes for the last time, after doing nothing wrong, there is just no one to take him home, walk out of there, go home, log on here and then tell me that breeding mutts is a great idea, but please until you do that, I don't want to hear anymore about how we are wrong, and somehow there is enough room in this world to be breeding more hybrids.

[Love4himies]

Luvmylab: your post made cry. Every person who allows their pet to breed should volunteer in a kill shelter. It would surely open their eyes.

[mastifflover]

Again..my only intention here is to help YOU stop some of your own badmouthing of people who are doing a desired service for people that want it.

The bottom line if people really understood what they were paying way to much money for something that you could go to any rescue, animal shelter and find tons of these so called designer breeds. They would not be forking out way too much money for a mutt or designer breed samething anyhow.
I find it outrageous that people get so pissed when they call the dog a mutt who really cares as long as they are loved and cared for. And they are mutts. The only reason people want the service is because they do not know better and they are still backyard breeders. People just need to be educated. I think I may have found a good way to make some extra money for shelters and rescues, advertise them as some designer breed and ask more money for them.

[BenMax]

LuvMyLab - thank you for your post. The death you describe reminds me of how many dogs I have seen die, or the ones that we and other rescues recieve, or just going to shelters or pounds and 'selecting' those we can save. All those eyes, all those faces and all those dogs I could not give a second chance to. The gas chamber place.....I shudder as I remember all those I was not allowed to take and finding out that they were killed in the end...and yes one was a little terrified terrier X pug. Oh yes....we need to keep on breeding. We need more designer hybrids, mutts, or the likes in this system.

In the end - it's only the animals that suffer. Most of us get it and others are too greedy, to self aborbed to even entertain the fact that we have a crisis.

I only pray that our youth will be able to carry the torch. I have high hopes for our children to correct our ways, to be kind to ourselves and our creatures. I hope that they are not trying to justify our evils as we do today, come up with excuses, make up new arguements that justify the means.

[lUvMyLaB<3]

As my daughters teacher said to her this morning....

"if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem"

is breeding hybrid cocker spaniel poodledoodlewhatcawhooos part of the solution Draughty????

[Bailey_]

Originally Posted by BenMax

LuvMyLab - thank you for your post. The death you describe reminds me of how many dogs I have seen die, or the ones that we and other rescues recieve, or just going to shelters or pounds and 'selecting' those we can save. All those eyes, all those faces and all those dogs I could not give a second chance to. The gas chamber place.....I shudder as I remember all those I was not allowed to take and finding out that they were killed in the end...and yes one was a little terrified terrier X pug. Oh yes....we need to keep on breeding. We need more designer hybrids, mutts, or the likes in this system.

In the end - it's only the animals that suffer. Most of us get it and others are too greedy, to self aborbed to even entertain the fact that we have a crisis.

I only pray that our youth will be able to carry the torch. I have high hopes for our children to correct our ways, to be kind to ourselves and our creatures. I hope that they are not trying to justify our evils as we do today, come up with excuses, make up new arguements that justify the means.

GAS CHAMBER??? Geeeezzuz, BM, what you have seen! :sad: Breaks my heart....

This past weekend DH helped me transfer four dogs and three cats from our city shelter to two different rescues. This is a regular occurance in our home when asked for help; but after reading this thread, it gives me all the more reason to rejoice after we do this and ask myself why we aren't doing more in this area. (And a special thanks to all of our members who ARE.)