Solid Gold Wolf King ingredients change!

[Skryker]

I remembered the pesticides later, while I was cooking dinner. (We had spaghetti and meatballs. )

I sure hope V8 is healthy-my husband drinks it every morning, and the dogs love to have a slurp, too. Personally, I can't stand the stuff.

[SuperWanda]

Deep thoughts by SuperWanda:

I have no idea what I am going to end up feeding my dogs. I have no opinion on what ingredients are bad or what ingredients are good.

It seems to me that there is a lot of controversy out there as to whether dogs are carnivores or omnivores. Even though the dog belongs to the Order Carnivora does that mean he is a carnivore? There are other mammals in this group that are not - and I’m sure you could get into a heated discussion with animal nutritionists and zoologists about this one.

Yes, ancestors of our furry doggie friends are meat eaters but they can also get nutrients and proteins from plants – that is why people can feed a dog a vegetarian diet and the dog will survive. Some say that dogs should be feed a diet mimicking their natural diet which some say is meat, some say a combination of plants and meat, some say raw, some say cooked. What’s a person to do?

Some say an evolutionary diet is better because a dog would have never cooked up grains in the wild – I believe I said this myself in one of my posts. However our doggie ancestors also did not have a cook top and they didn’t know how to use it. I don’t think a wolf would have eaten hard, uncooked grains either. In my opinion, I think their diet would have been mainly meat based although I believe they would have eaten some plant material. I think they would have also eaten it raw – because like I said before they did not have a cook top and they didn’t know how to use it so what does it matter.

Well, I also know that most animals in the wild are not the healthiest creatures and animals in captivity live a lot longer. They get a mix of raw and cooked with added vitamins and minerals. They get examined by vets and cared for in a way that no wild animal would ever benefit.

So, based on this information I would like to feed my dogs a well balanced and nutritious diet. Well, what is that? I’m not sure I even know the answer!!!

There are also opinions on the value or nutrition of ingredients. Are things like tomato pomace bad? – I think that depends on the way you look at it. I have no idea whether it is bad or good. Sometimes I want to have the whole cranberry or the cranberry juice for different reasons. I know that if I ate just whole cranberries I would have to eat a heck of a lot of them to get the benefits of certain nutrients so that is why I may take a cranberry supplement. Is whole better? In some cases it might be, in some cases it may not be. It depends what you want from the food – or what nutrient you want or what fiber you want – whatever.

If companies put it in because of fiber is that ok, or not ok? Again, I don’t know the answer. I’m not going to eat a whole bag of prunes because I know I’ll be in the bathroom all day – I choose the foods I eat because I know what I need and what will be nutritious and balanced. Sometime I may eat too much of one thing or not enough of another. Well, dogs can’t really do this – we decide what to feed them.

I think when we look at all these holistic brands or natural brands and see all these herbal additives – who’s to know what kind of effect those may have? Plants contain some of the most toxic compounds in nature. They can also act as stool hardeners or stool softeners.

What about pesticides or toxins – again I don’t have the answer. I know that chemicals and pesticides are everywhere these days. I’m sure I have been exposed to a lot of them unknowingly. I do what I can do – wash my fruit and veggies – sometimes I may even buy organic however it is pretty expensive and sometimes hard to find. I assume that when we eat our concentrated tomato products that they have hopefully washed the tomatoes before I am consuming them. But, I can’t be sure of anything. Toxins in fish, pesticides in tomatoes, these things may be unavoidable but we eat them because of the omega 3’s or the concentrated lycopenes or because of the fiber.

This is why I am so darned confused about what to feed my dogs!!!

In the end I will probably feed what I think is nutritious and balanced and what they enjoy. I would like a lot of the protein to come from high, digestible meat sources. If some comes from grains I feel that this is ok because they are cooked – I see the value in certain nutrients and fiber but I would like it to be lower than the meat part. Added vitamins and minerals from various fruit and veggies or from herbal sources or nuts and seeds – depends on what it is. And essential oils too - hopefully a balance between the omega’s and some probiotics and digestive enzymes. This may come from cooked, raw or a combination.

I don’t think we should get caught up on just one ingredient – you may never find the perfect food that is free of pesticides or toxins. There will always be ongoing studies about nutrition and whether a particular food or compound is healthy or toxic - and it changes all the time. We just have to do the best we can do :love: and hope that we (pets and people) live a long, healthy and happy life!

[x.l.r.8]

I agree compleatly, however (there's always a however isn't there) you don't ring up ocean spray and ask for there left over cranberry skins to add you you food, so why do it for your pets, it's not actually that bad but when your paying for a premium product you don't expect it to be adding things like that when cheaper products are adding whole tomato's. Also the thinking behind adding them is a stool hardener to disguise the fact there moving up oats so it's a compnesation thing. If you cheapen the ingredients and change formula you TELL people, hell even Mc.D's did with there nuggets. If your paying for a product like SG your pretty well informed, The owner should know that so pulling a stunt like this is just a cheap trick. I have no alegence to any particular product and like you I'm on the fence as it's all new to me, I'm sure I'm going to do th best for my pet as will you. I jsut think it's great to be informed about that choice.

[x.l.r.8]

I agree compleatly, however (there's always a however isn't there) you don't ring up ocean spray and ask for there left over cranberry skins to add you you food, so why do it for your pets, it's not actually that bad but when your paying for a premium product you don't expect it to be adding things like that when cheaper products are adding whole tomato's. Also the thinking behind adding them is a stool hardener to disguise the fact there moving up oats so it's a compnesation thing. If you cheapen the ingredients and change formula you TELL people, hell even Mc.D's did with there nuggets. If your paying for a product like SG your pretty well informed, The owner should know that so pulling a stunt like this is just a cheap trick. I have no alegence to any particular product and like you I'm on the fence as it's all new to me, I'm sure I'm going to do th best for my pet as will you. I jsut think it's great to be informed about that choice.

[SuperWanda]

I'm not going to be paying for the solid gold either for a number of reasons but I just get thoroughly confused when there are so many different arguments about a particular ingredient. I'm just saying that sometimes things are removed or taken from foods to concentrate a particular nutrient because it may have a benefit to our health - more so than the whole food itself.

I wasn't defending the use of tomato pomace. Whether or not tomato pomace is used for a good reason in dog foods or a bad reason - high lycopene or slow fiber or filler - I don't really know??? because I can read a number of different things supporting each one.

That's why as a consumer it is very difficult. I just don't want to get stuck in a place where I can't choose anything at all because - this one has this one bad ingredient or this one has another bad ingredient - I would probably never get anything. I would rather try to look at things in a broader sense.

[rainbow]

Originally Posted by mafiaprincess

Which reminds me. Turns out SG *was* co owned.. There was a big stink, owner of global couldn't remember when.. and the other person left her and created 'holistic blend' which is Canadian if anyone cares.. and in the time she's made it has never screwed with the ingredients.. and it's a pretty good seller.. didn't see anything sketch in it, but I didn't look at the bags for long.
Thought that was an interesting thing to find out..

I had heard this too but couldn't remember from where and was unable to find a source that I could post here.

[mafiaprincess]

I couldn't remember who'd brought up that it had been co owned..
But I thought it was interesting that the store owner mentioned it during my visit.

[rainbow]

Originally Posted by mafiaprincess

I couldn't remember who'd brought up that it had been co owned. But I thought it was interesting that the store owner mentioned it during my visit.

The next time you're at that store could you ask her for more information? Does Sissy (can't remember her last name) solely own Solid Gold now? Someone on another forum questioned whether Diamond had taken over SG.

I presume the owner of Holistic Blendz is Canadian. I went to the Holistic Blends website to check it out. The ingredients were printed so small I couldn't even read them with my reading glasses on. I was at the pet store yesterday and they had a bag of the cat food there and it listed menadione as an ingredient so I wonder if it's in the dog food as well?

[doggy lover]

Help, this is making my head spin. So what is a good food right now, dry food. Tucker can't have a too high protein or he gets hyper and I can't deal with that. I use to cook his food for him but I guess it was too high in protein and he got super hyper, then I went to Iams that is a bad word and not a great food, so I switched to SG H&F. I don't want to go raw, as I have a fear of raw foods, being a cook in a nursing home, so what do you guys suggest?

[Scott_B]

Most people feed their dogs a good quality diet so that they get lots of energy. Never heard tell of trying to de-energize a dog.

[Prin]

What about Canidae, Doggy Lover?
http://www.canidae.com/

Or DVP natural balance? (bit more expensive)
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/dogformulas/home.html

Or the regular innova?
Innova dog dry

Scott, Doggy lover's dog is already a very high energy border collie...

[doggy lover]

Thanks Prin I'll check into them, have to get ready to take Tucker to the vets right now for his shots.
Scott, too high of a protein diet causes Tucker to be crazy hyper, yes if he was a working dog I would want him to be on a higher protein diet, but I don't think I could handle him being highly active 24\7 and then he gets destructive when he gets bored things get distroyed, I don't want to go there again. He is a beautiful dog and I would never trade him but you can never have a border collie thinking about what to do next, it ends up to no good

[Scott_B]

yup, i understand that, but to me it just seems weird to want to slow them down.

Originally Posted by Prin

What about Canidae, Doggy Lover?


Scott, Doggy lover's dog is already a very high energy border collie...

[Prin]

I don't think it's slowing him down, so much as not making him hyper. Kinda like kids and chocolate or something.

[technodoll]

totally bizarre. it's the carbs from the grains that make dogs hyper, not the energy from protein!

Most diets contain a certain percentage of carbohydrates although they are not considered essential nutrients for dogs. Sugars and starches, which formulate the class of digestible carbohydrates, are metabolized during digestion into glucose. Glucose provides energy, dispenses amino acids and helps synthesize fats.

Carbohydrates provide an inexpensive alternative to protein and fats. Most commercial dog foods contain a large percentage of digestible carbohydrates.

http://www.dog.com/information/carbs.asp

a link between high levels of protein in a dog’s diet and true hyperactivity has yet to be proven.

read
http://www.videxgsd.co.uk/nutrition__hyperactivity.htm

also good: http://www.thepetcenter.com/imtop/contrast.html

Carbohydrates are useful to dogs and cats for readily burnable fuel for all kinds of muscular and metabolic activities. Cheap and easily produced sources of carbohydrates are such items as rice, corn, wheat, barley and soy. Hmmmmmmm... sounds like what some pet food manufacturers are commonly using as their first choice for a diet’s foundation. Some even claim these plant products to be an excellent sources of protein!

Case, Carey and Hirakawa in their book on nutrition list seventeen plant products including ground rice, corn, wheat, oats, barley, alfalfa and others as sources of carbohydrates. In fact, one of the benefits of carbohydrates, so say the experts, is that they are protein sparing. That is, the animal will utilize inexpensive carbohydrate sources for energy if available to the animal before the animal will utilize more expensive (a human concept!) protein. So. . . let's add some plant material to our ideal food for the carbohydrate benefits and not confuse anybody by implying (or worse, stating) that the corn, rice or wheat is primarily a protein product. (The same authors list nineteen pet food ingredients used as protein sources. . . and ground corn, wheat, rice, oats, barley and alfalfa are NOT on that list.)

That takes care of the carbohydrates in our diet; we know we will use some inexpensive grains, however our diet will NOT use grain as the foundation or primary ingredient. And just so you know, dogs and cats do very well on diets with minimal carbohydrates and a preponderance of fats and high quality protein. Dogs and cats differ from humans in this respect. Remember… all aspects of human nutrition do not necessarily correspond to canine and feline nutrition.

[doggy lover]

Wow more to think about, but I'll have to get back to this later this afternoon. Scott Tucker goes for about 12 hours a day on a normal day, some how I don't think he has slowed down, in hyper mode he is bouncing off the walls. Mind you he is now over 2 and has slowed down due to age, but in hyper mode he also pays no attenshion to commands. He is like a kid with ADHD. Got to go.

[Prin]

But everybody's different. I can have 10 chocolate bars and still be "normal" but give me one tylenol and I'm bouncing off the walls.

And considering when Jemma and Boo switched to WK, which is better protein, but still a few grains, they got so much new energy.

[technodoll]

but the TYPE of energy is different... carbs in dog food can produce "rushes" just like sugar does to (most) people, while energy from protein is level and better utilized... healthier in the long run.

of course all dogs are different though. i don't know how I'd live with such a high-energy dog, LOL! maybe he needs a job!

[doggy lover]

Prin I was looking up those pet foods and Natural Balance does contain tomato pomace, is that not one of the ingredients that we were trying to stay away from? Anyways I think I'll sto at Pet Value on the way home from the vets and have a look at the Canidae and Innova, see if they have samples to let Tucker try, he still has about 1\2 a large bag of H&F so I have time to introduce a different kind to him. I'm going to take the names you gave me to the vet and ask which one he would think is better, I'll print off their ingredients for him to look at.

[Scott_B]

Which NB formula where you looking at? The venison and sweet potato & Fish dont have it?

[doggy lover]

INGREDIENT LISTING
Chicken, Brown Rice, Duck, Lamb Meal, Oatmeal, Pearled Barley, Potatoes, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols - source of Vitamin E, Citric Acid, and Rosemary Extract), Natural Flavor, Tomato Pomace, Canola Oil, Brewers Yeast, Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Carrots, Potassium Chloride, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Dried Kelp, Sodium Chloride, Parsley Flakes, Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplements, Ascorbic Acid (vitamin C), Taurine, Yucca Schidigera Extract, L-Lysine, Manganese Sulfate, Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Inositol, Folic Acid (Vitamin B-9), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Thiamin Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), D-Activated Animal Sterol (source of Vitamin D-3), Biotin, Ethylene Diamine Dihydriodide (source of Iodine), Cobalt Sulfate, Vitamin K1 Supplement, Sodium Selenite.

This is the ingredients from the regular blend its there, anyways I picked up the Canidae from pet value and I'm going to try that.
Tucker has put on a little weight (he was 56 and is now 61lbs big boy for a BC) and his vet doesn't want him to gain more so he will be cut down a little on his food. Other than that he if perfectly healthy, and the vet said he is beautiful. So all is well till next year.

[Scott_B]

Ahh, yes the reg formula.

Anyhoo, for Canidae. Its a great food imo.

[rainbow]

Canidae is a good choice. Glad Tucker got a from the vet.

[doggy lover]

Yep he had a good day, kept him busy mind and body. First a ride in my sisters car to vet, seen vet, walked to the pet value checked out all the doggy stuff in store. Got the new food and a new bone, walked to park, had a romp in the park and got a TTC bus home. It has tired him out, just a little. Maybe he will go to bed before 11 pm tonight. Here is a pic of Tucker today, he is a big boy now.

[technodoll]

he's a beaut!! he just turned 2, right?

[doggy lover]

He will be 2 1\2 in mid November. Gee how time flies.

[rainbow]

What a handsome boy. You're allowed to take dogs on public transit there?

[doggy lover]

Yep, Tucker has been on the bus a few times no one has said anything. I have seen other dogs on the trains and buses too. I wouldn't want to do it in rush hour down town or anything though. I don't know what the written law is about the TTC, but I guess as long as they behave and are not bothering people its ok.Tucker just sits between my legs so no one bothers him or steps on his tail or anything else.

[Prin]

Yeah, tomoato pomace is to be avoided... The allergy-formulas don't have it (as Scott said).

Canidae is a good choice. Remember to switch gradually though.

[Esaunders]

Yup, dogs are allowed on the TTC. I remember reading that they weren't allowed during rush hour but can't find the link.

I took my pup to Woofstock on the TTC, no problem