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Drive through Amish country. Take a look at the "kennels" there and then tell me that the government or big business gives a rat's *ass about what our pets are fed. They sure don't care about how animals are housed and bred - why should the quality of food be any different!
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Sandi |
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I don't know but if a company does this for at least 5 years is someone who you choose to support I guess that is up to you but I would prefer to feed my dog food from a responsible company that is not charging me the same price for a bag of corn that I pay for food that has real chicken and no corn in it.Corn is just filler no nutritional value.
I don't think it's fair to tell people they are feeding their beloved pets something that contributes to cruelty unless you know for sure. Okay, so then is it okay to tell them they are feeding there pets an overpriced bag of filler leave out the part that everyone else seems to realize but you. You can feed your pets a lot better for a lot cheaper.
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Robin A dog has so many friends because they wag their tails not their tongues. R.I.P. Buddy 2002-2008 The best Mastiff ever. Now owned by Clark the Crazy American Bulldog |
#33
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a) That I don't think it's fair to slam on people for what they feed their cat if there is no cruelty involved - it just turns them OFF to everything this site might have to say, honestly. The first few replies to a post wondering why IAMS was not on the shelves were basically "good, that stuff is crap anyway". Do you think most people read further after that? The OP might have just wanted a reply to his question and if he'd gotten it might have read more onto the site. I really don't think the allegations of abuse were put fairly. If someone had wanted to say "In the past they were found to have done this and so I don't support them any more and choose to buy other products" that would be different. But that's not what was said. b) The shelter I volunteer at has investigated IAMS and feeds IAMS, and they have decided to acknowledge the past transgressions and accept evidence of change as acceptable. If there was evidence of something new going on, I know they would love to hear it. But I doubt they have the resources to spend on other foods right now based on old info that isn't currently going on. |
#34
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I just can't think of any company as being ethical when the are producing food that is not in the best interests of the animals it is intended for. It really makes me angry that the companies are making this poor quality food for people who have put their trust in them. That is cruel!!!!!!!!! to both humans and the pets.
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Cat maid to: Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 13 yrs) Jasper RIP (2001-2018) Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014) Puddles RIP (1996-2014) Snowball RIP (1991-2005) In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb “While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey |
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Personally I feel we try to educate people as to the dangers of feeding grains/corn and byproducts in dry cat food more so than the expensive stuff. I know very well how difficult it is to try to make a pay cheque stretch to buy my cat food and pay my bills. Some months I don't make it and dip into the ol' credit cards. And that is buying the "cheaper" brands. I feed what I can afford.
BUT - with the help of this forum and a lot of reading and educating myself as to what is good/bad for my cats I know dry foods filled with grain/corn and tons of by products are only harming my cats. My cats go through close to 300 cans of food a week. That would be a mix of the cheaper foods, some Fancy Feasts, Performatrin Ultra, Wellness, and other good foods if I can find good deals on it. They get a small amount of dry to supplement but I make sure it is the best dry I can afford. I chose ones that do not have grain or corn in them. If you must feed dry then Kirkland brand from Costco is a better choice for people on a budget. The first ingredients in it is chicken. Not by products of chicken. Chicken. Not grain or corn. Even if you don't have a membership I would bet lots of your friends do and would be willing to pick up a bag. Please make sure your cat(s) always have plenty of fresh water available to them as they will be chronically dehydrated. If you haven't had a chance to read this site then please take some time to read it. www.catinfo.org. In it you will find a comment that I personally, because of finances, go by. It is "The cheapest canned food is still better for your cat than the most expensive dry."
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me. We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD! Last edited by 14+kitties; September 13th, 2010 at 10:33 PM. Reason: added some info |
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Investigating a place that has past allegations against it before you choose to do business with them is smart, it's not conflict of interest.
Yes I've seen that site before, because it's been posted to me in reply in SEVERAL threads in this forum. Which is my point. It's a very high-pressure place, this. People don't just answer a question if they don't approve of the food, etc. They lecture and preach. Nag, even. Sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes, it's worth laying off and just let the information be there for people to find. People do want to do right by their pets, by and large. You might find you have more listeners. |
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driver8, I am not trying to be rude, but since you seem very concerned with recent, legitimate, valid proof, what actual proof do you have that IAMS is not currently using any of their old practices? I would be interested to see any links, documents, etc. you have that proves that they have improved and changed their ways. What evidence of change have they provided, that is actual valid recent proof? My .. I would not be comfortable feeding a product to my pets from a company that has ever used anything than less than ethical practices, regardless of what their current practices are now. Can I guarantee that the company I purchase the products I feed my pets now has never used unethical practices? No. But I make the decision to the best of my knowledge, and would not hesitate to look for an alternative at the drop of a hat should anything come to light that suggested otherwise. That being said, shelters are usually supported through generous donations and do not have much say in what products are donated to them. They need to use whatever is donated to them, and sometimes this can mean using products that may not be the best quality, but they have to work with what they get. They make do with the best they have to provide the best they can for the animals in their care. I hear it all the time "I can't afford to feed my cat/dog any better than ___". You can make a lot of arguments about this statement and debate it, but at the end of the day we should try to feed our fur friends the best we can afford. That being said, I think it's so important to do your research on canine/feline nutrition, as quite often it is not that much more expensive (it may even be cheaper) to feed our pets a high-quality diet. I have worked out the difference down to the penny of feeding my dogs a high-quality raw food diet, a high-quality kibble diet, a mixture of the two, and a cheaper end kibble diet. What I found out was this: besides the $$ I will save on vet trips, extra poop bags etc. the difference was a mere dollars a month. So for an extra few bucks a month, I opt to feed my dogs the very best diet I can and I believe it pays me back ten-fold. Many of us are very passionate on here, driver8. Perhaps that comes across as rude sometimes. But I like to think that most members on Pets do a wonderful job of educating individuals who come here seeking information. I think our emotions and the words we use over the internet are sometimes miscommunicated. I don't find Pets to be high pressure... but I do think that sometimes individuals come on here looking for an easy fix or a certain answer, and when we don't give them the answer they want to hear, they become angry and leave. I also find that individuals join the forum with the sole intent of lighting a fire, and it brings out the worst in all of us. Just to clarify, I am not directing this at you, these are just my general observations. I agree that the best tactic is to provide information to people and let them do their own research and make up their own minds. But certainly there is nothing wrong with healthy and polite debate. In the process hopefully we can educate each other and do the best for our furry friends. IMO (and maybe this would be considered leacturing and preachy), we all need to be a little less reactive and think twice about the words we write. I find that a lot of feelings become unnecessarily hurt. Cheers. Cassie
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My babies: Sassy - Maltese X (9), Furby - Shihtzu X (7), Brynn - Boxer (3), Diesel - Boxer (1) "Many of the Earth's habitats, animals, plants, insects, and even micro-organisms that we know as rare may not be known at all by future generations. We have the capability, and the responsibility. We must act before it is too late." - Dalai Lama Last edited by cassiek; September 14th, 2010 at 12:22 AM. |
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Seems pretty obviously the OP started this thread knowing full well what the end result would be given the comments showing he/she knew in advance the "foods most people on here recommend."
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*********************************** Dracko (GSD) male - 2000 - 31/02/2011 RIP my boy Mochie (Balinese X/feline) female - 1994 - 07/01/2010 RIP my sweetie Ginkgo (Siamese X/feline) female - 6 years Smitty (long-haired white/feline) male - 5 years Teiya (Ragdoll x/feline) female - 3 years Kinsey (Ragdoll x/feline) female - 3 years DON’T BREED OR BUY WHILE SHELTER PETS DIE! |
#39
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Just adopted my second pound puppy, and immediately switched her to my older girl's diet (another perk for certain foods, due to their high protein content they don't have to be puppy specific). Within a couple of weeks, her stool is getting firmer, WAY less stinky, and more consistent....no accidents in the house!!!
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I used to have a Multiple Personality Disorder, but the doctor says we are fine now. Harley - 8 year old Beagle x Dobie Jet - 10 month old Labrador Retriever |
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Just realized I trounced all over a cat food issue with my doggie experience. My apologies, but still feel that the heart of what I'm saying applies. Feed better = Feel better.
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I used to have a Multiple Personality Disorder, but the doctor says we are fine now. Harley - 8 year old Beagle x Dobie Jet - 10 month old Labrador Retriever |
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Can animals survive on a poorer quality diet? Certainly! But I always say, there is a difference between SURVIVE and THRIVE. I want my pets to THRIVE and be the healthiest they can. I am one of those on a tight budget, and sometimes cringe when I need to buy dog food again. But, I believe I am being paid by ten-fold, so it's worth it in my mind.
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My babies: Sassy - Maltese X (9), Furby - Shihtzu X (7), Brynn - Boxer (3), Diesel - Boxer (1) "Many of the Earth's habitats, animals, plants, insects, and even micro-organisms that we know as rare may not be known at all by future generations. We have the capability, and the responsibility. We must act before it is too late." - Dalai Lama |
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Coming from experience here (although thankfully not with my own dogs!)
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I used to have a Multiple Personality Disorder, but the doctor says we are fine now. Harley - 8 year old Beagle x Dobie Jet - 10 month old Labrador Retriever |
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Actually Drako, the OP started this with a question and has not come back.
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me. We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD! |
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#45
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Perception is everything. Investigating a place, then getting free stuff, then stating the "investigatee" is now "clean" just doesn't sit well with me.
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Cat maid to: Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 13 yrs) Jasper RIP (2001-2018) Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014) Puddles RIP (1996-2014) Snowball RIP (1991-2005) In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb “While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey |
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IMO, feed what you want, but like you said don't pretend it's something it's not. Be realistic. For me the only proof I need is the ingredient list. In my books if it contains a lot of grains and mysterious meats its out! I also like to support my local economy as much as possible, and buy products that are made close to home. I work in the poultry industry and have seen at the processors what chicken parts are ending up in dog food like IAMS... all I can say is
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My babies: Sassy - Maltese X (9), Furby - Shihtzu X (7), Brynn - Boxer (3), Diesel - Boxer (1) "Many of the Earth's habitats, animals, plants, insects, and even micro-organisms that we know as rare may not be known at all by future generations. We have the capability, and the responsibility. We must act before it is too late." - Dalai Lama |
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Educate might be the word you are looking for.
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I can't agree more.
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My babies: Sassy - Maltese X (9), Furby - Shihtzu X (7), Brynn - Boxer (3), Diesel - Boxer (1) "Many of the Earth's habitats, animals, plants, insects, and even micro-organisms that we know as rare may not be known at all by future generations. We have the capability, and the responsibility. We must act before it is too late." - Dalai Lama |
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If anyone was confrontational I think it was the OP who did not like what we were saying and tried to make us the bad guys. I feel we were all trying to educate someone who did not want to be
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Robin A dog has so many friends because they wag their tails not their tongues. R.I.P. Buddy 2002-2008 The best Mastiff ever. Now owned by Clark the Crazy American Bulldog |
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Here you go. 2009. Site from Iams. Still admitting to animal testing going on. Even if it is only a small amount it is still going on.
http://www.iamsagainstcruelty.com/ia...malTesting.jsp 2010 - from their own website......... http://www.pg.com/en_US/sustainabili..._welfare.shtml Sometimes, to ensure that materials are safe and effective, we must conduct research that involves animals. This is a last resort. We consider such research only after every other reasonable option has been exhausted. The vast majority of our tests do not use animals and our ultimate goal is to completely eliminate animal testing. IMO testing on even one animal is animal cruelty. There are enough human guinea pigs around willing to put themselves at risk for a few bucks. Use them. At least they have made the choice themselves.
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me. We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD! Last edited by 14+kitties; September 14th, 2010 at 01:07 PM. |
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And unfortuately I think all the confrontation in this thread has chased that person away. |
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From http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...that_test.html this comment about P & G (who also owns the Iams brand) published March 4/10 .... Quote:
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http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/1410669 |
#53
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driver8,,,i'm intrigued with why you are soooo pro IAM's,,,you talk about them as a company which they are not,,IAM's is a product,just as purina puppy chow,pedigree,Alpo,Beneful,Mighty dog,Fancy feast,,etc etc are...all of these products and many more you would know by name are all PRODUCTS. Does it not concern you "why" they have food recalls. Better yet should i remind you of the tainted food a few years ago that killed several animals and made others extremely ill, one of which was a member of this forums lovely little kitty. No she didn't die right away instead she with the help of her loving mommy lived several years..Mind you she had several health issues for the rest of her life.
I could understand if you were supporting a truly GOOD pet food product (and no i don't feed mine Orijen,,etc). Why support a product that has recalls and legal issues up the ying yang. Seriously if something you were feeding your family was being recalled several times,,would you keep feeding it to your family? |
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oh and this is from a recent legal document from a recent law suit...
Because of persistent rumors that rendered by-products contain dead dogs and cats, the FDA conducted a study looking for pentobarbital, the most common euthanasia drug, in pet foods. They found it. Ingredients that were most commonly associated with the presence of pentobarbital were meat-and-bone-meal and animal fat. However, they also used very sensitive tests to look for canine and feline DNA, which were not found. Industry insiders admit that rendered pets and roadkill were used in pet food some years ago. Although there are still no laws or regulations against it However, so-called “4D” animals (dead, dying, diseased, disabled) were only recently banned for human consumption and are still legitimate ingredients for pet food |
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Seriously if something you were feeding your family was being recalled several times,,would you keep feeding it to your family?
Well said Aslan. PS Clark sends Grace his love and kisses You do realize other than me that Grace is the only person he does that too
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Robin A dog has so many friends because they wag their tails not their tongues. R.I.P. Buddy 2002-2008 The best Mastiff ever. Now owned by Clark the Crazy American Bulldog |
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1. I am not pro-iams. Find where I said I was. I am anti-false-accusation.
2. My objection had nothing to do with quality food vs not-good quality. 3. I started a separate thread where people can contribute some good, useful suggestions about cat foods to use for people on a budget who shop at regular stores. This is the vast majority of pet owners I see day to day. So maybe all of you kind souls can go make some suggestions there and have it all be collected in one thread? http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72558 |
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So are the links where they admit to testing on animals from 2009 and 2010 they are not the same rehashed info. But if they admit to a little testing I am betting there is more than that going on. But the bottom line is that we are not arguing about a good food here we are talking about a bag of corn. so I am done. I do not use or ever will use this product.
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Robin A dog has so many friends because they wag their tails not their tongues. R.I.P. Buddy 2002-2008 The best Mastiff ever. Now owned by Clark the Crazy American Bulldog |
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As far as I was last aware, the government actually requires testing on live animals. The info I have from the humane society's investigation is that it's diet testing and having feces examined, that type of thing. Not all "testing" is cruelty. I'd actually be willing to be that all pet food out there has involved "testing".
You might not use the product, but so many do. It's important to have accurate info provided, imo. |
#60
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Find out what testing actually means and also what happens to those animals once testing is terminated. |
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