Raw diet, not going well

[SarahLynn123]

We started the raw diet about 3 weeks ago, and one of my dogs is not taking to it well at all.

She doesn't really care for it, she will eat maybe once a day.

She is prone to eye infections and ear infections and neither seem to be improving, her eyes actually look a bit worse.

Her poops are a little runny and mucousy, and she is pooping in the house (not sure if its related)

I had my other dog at the vets for his annual check up and I told her he was on a raw diet (she asked). She said that they dont approve of it (of course!) and if I was going to do it, I should do it right. She told her assistant to give me a copy of the raw diet but the tech messed up and gave me a copy of the maccaroni and hamburger diet with free supplements.

Has anyone ever heard of this diet and should I whip up a batch and try it out? She prefers all her food to be cooked, so I cook and egg for her at lunch time and she loves it.

What do you think?

Thanks
Sarah

[BoxerRescueMTL]

Hi Sarah! What has she been eating the past 3 weeks?
The eye/ear infections can take months to clear up, depending on how persistant or severe they were. The raw diet is not a miracle cure all, but does seem to help a lot dogs with these issues - over time.
Runny and mucousy can be normal at first, but maybe you are introducing too many foods too fast? Or there is not enough bone in there to keep stuff firm? When I switch a dog over, I feed ground raw on bone for the first couple of weeks and I find that makes the transition SO much easier. When I haven't done that, they have had runny stools and trouble digesting. But all the dogs I have switched to ground on bone raw first have had normal stolls from the get go. Once I see htye are handling it well, I try whole meats.

Maccarroni and ground beef doesn't sound like a complete diet to me. I guess that's why they gave you supplements to include..Personally I'd rather feed a complete diet and not need so many supplements. The only supplements I use are fish body oil and probiotics sometimes...Hope this helps a bit!!

[SarahLynn123]

Thanks boxer rescue! The only thing they are eating lately is chicken, chicken organs, and eggs. I through in some ground beef a a couple weeks ago and all hell broke loose with my ultra sensitive GSD ( I only gave her half an ounce!). I also tried pork once last weekend and same thing, so I've been keeping the dogs on chicken for now.

Belle (the one who is having problems) is a Cavalier king charles X, she ate the beef once, then wouldn't touch it again, wouldn't try the pork, and will eat the cooked eggs everyday and maybe chicken everyday, usually only every second day (with tuna juice on it). She has no problems eating the bone, when she actually eats! I could try adding more bone, maybe she will eat it!

Thanks!
Sarah

[BoxerRescueMTL]

Hmmm...try only chicken - no organs, or trying other meats etc. See if that helps. Since you are fedding chicken w/bone in then adding more bone is not the answer..Just let he get accustomed to the chicken, then work up to a tiny bit of organ after a few weeks. If you have access to ground w/bone then try a couple of packs just to see if she eats that better...Some people sear the outside of the meat very quickly and that seems to be more appetizing for some dogs. Never tried it myself..

[technodoll]

hang in there sarah... it will get easier over time. one of my dogs will only eat raw a few meals per week, he just doesn't like raw stuff that much and will get ridiculously skinny if we don't feed him kibble half the time... and the raw meaty bones he gets have to be seared. my girl, on the other hand, will starve before touching kibble so the raw diet is perfect for her, she will eat any meats but needs variety, she gets bored quite easily. we were lucky that she has an iron stomach and there is no problem with variety in her diet.

now for your furkids... have you tried raw green tripe? if you can find some (Urban Carnivore has frozen raw patties) then you're all set, 99% of dogs go nuts for it, must be because it stinks so much, LOL! it's the perfect balanced food, too. you can mix raw eggs in the thawed tripe, or fish, etc... http://www.greentripe.com/ for more info on this miracle food.

here is some helpful info on introducing a raw diet to your dogs:

So now you are ready to begin. Start off slow. The biggest mistake most "newbies" make is to add too much variety too soon! The result? A very rough transition that involves lots of midnight trips outside. So, start slowly. Pick one protein source and feed that for about a week (or more—it depends on your dog!). Many people start with chicken because it is an easily digestible protein source that is relatively inexpensive and is easy to get. But if you want to start with something different, like pork or beef, then by all means do so. Make sure to pick a raw meaty bone that is suitable for your dog. If you have a Chihuahua, try a chicken thigh. If you have a Golden Retriever, try a chicken quarter. And always feed it raw and whole—none of this 'feed ground' business! One of the main points of a raw diet is to give your dog a much-needed dental workout that cleans its teeth, prepares its digestive system for the incoming food, and satisfies the dog both mentally and physically.

Work up to variety slowly. Do not worry about achieving "balance" with a wide variety of raw meaty bones and organs right away. You are in a whole different realm now where balance is a useless, meaningless term. You must work up to variety slowly, and over a period of time. There is no need to rush things, as rushing can cause you and your dog undue misery in the form of early morning trips outside with diarrhea, etc. Your pet is not going to suffer from eating one food source for a period of time—the raw food source it will be eating is superior in quality to any kibbled food and contains just what your pet needs nutritionally. Let your dog's system adjust to eating real food. Remember, your dog (or cat) has been eating a grain-based, hard-to-digest, artificial food that is WAY different from fresh, real food. The dog may have a suppressed immune system and possibly suppressed digestive enzymes, and just needs time to get its system up and running.

Once your pet is used to eating the raw meaty bones you are giving him, try adding something new: a little organ meat, or a new protein. Again, take things slowly. Let your pet adjust to the new food for a while before adding another new food. Always add slowly, and always give the animal time to adjust to the new food. And remember: you do not have to do this alone! Join the Yahoo! Raw feeding group; this group can provide you with an awesome support network of people who have been feeding raw for years to over 26 dogs, as well as newcomers who are in the same position you are—eager to do what is best for their pets and willing to learn.

now i personally don't agree with everything in the above article (i sometimes feed ground meat & bones to my girl) but it has some very good points. gooo sloooowly. do not expect overnight miracles, this is a diet that will improve your dog's health over time, it's not antibiotics to clear up an infection. it can take a few months to see the difference, but i promise you it will be there.

the mainstay of the prey-model diet is 15-20% bone, 10% organ meat, and the rest meat (with some space for eggs, cottage cheese, other goodies... if you can feed them.) Maybe you could add a little more bone, and less organs (they can cause runny stools). some dogs can't tolerate eggs, either! (by the way, they are great served raw frozen... just pop the shell off and you have a cool eggsicle!). you could sear the meat to entice the difficult ones to eat - slit the skin & meat to let some juices flow, as poultry is not very odorifous as such - or try goat, most dogs looove it. and some dogs love raw fish (sardines, mackeral, trout, smelts...) but not meats, or vice-versa. the sky is the limit, really... I'd be happy to answer any specific questions you have, fire away!

here is some good reading material, on switching to raw and what to expect, how to do it, etc: http://www.katberard.com/hol_bonesandfood.htm

exerpt:

Transitioning to Raw. Please do not attempt to switch your animal's diet without first doing your research. There is more to this diet than just handing raw meat and vegetables to your dog or cat. There is a learning curve and it will take a few weeks to get comfortable with the program, and develop a routine of preparing meals that works best with your schedule and lifestyle. I eventually chose to make big batches of ground meat/vegetable/supplement meals and freeze them; and I also feed various meaty bones and fish along with certain vegetables and grains. There are a number of great books and websites which explain what to feed and why. I started Max on Dr. Pitcairn's way of feeding, and two years later I fully transitioned to including raw bones in his diet. He is at his healthiest state ever. Barney was transitioned to a raw diet when he was very ill and it made a tremendous difference in his recovery.

[SarahLynn123]

Thanks

Belle wont touch organs so I was thinking of cooking some for her. Maybe I'll wait on that. She ate like a champ this morning and we will continue on with it.

How smelly is green tripe and how easy is it to get the smell off your dog? Belle rolls in anything new! (plastic rugs, chicken, pumpkin, etc) I should probably have the bath tub ready when I give her that!

She does love tuna and sardines (she also rolled in this the first time we gave it to her). Maybe chicken is just to bland for her, she never really cared for any kibble so her not wanting to eat isn't unusual.

I dont have any specific questions right yet. The other two dogs are doing wonderful! They love the food and get so excited at feeding time that they whine under their breath and shake! Its so cute. and their poops are amazingly small! I thought one of the poops outside were Belles (Cocker X) but my bf informed that it was Shadows (GSD)!!!!

Thanks for the links, we will find some green tripe and see how she takes to fish (slowly of course!)

[technodoll]

Thanks

Belle wont touch organs so I was thinking of cooking some for her. Maybe I'll wait on that. She ate like a champ this morning and we will continue on with it.

How smelly is green tripe and how easy is it to get the smell off your dog? Belle rolls in anything new! (plastic rugs, chicken, pumpkin, etc) I should probably have the bath tub ready when I give her that!

I dont have any specific questions right yet. The other two dogs are doing wonderful! They love the food and get so excited at feeding time that they whine under their breath and shake! Its so cute. and their poops are amazingly small! I thought one of the poops outside were Belles (Cocker X) but my bf informed that it was Shadows (GSD)!!!!

hey sarah, that is all very positive! tell you what... neither of my dogs will go near any raw organs, if i sear them they just nibble on the cooked bits and leave the rest... so i compromise, i bake them and that, my friend, is like doggy-crack, ha ha! i bake a big batch of livers or kidneys (vary the animal source from time to time) in the oven, on a foil-lined cookie sheet so there are no drippings or messes. keeps well in the fridge for a week, i dose out little bits every other day and it really works. i figure i can't win this battle with them but then there is no war

ah yes... the famous "disappearing poop" is a sight to behold eh? no more scooping up bricks or cowpies... just a few walnut-size pieces and you're done! LOL

green tripe... i would advise finding the ground frozen variety and feed it in small amounts so Belle cannot roll in it... because you will be sick! it literally smells like cow pies! even frozen it makes me gag, i have to breathe through my mouth to handle it. buttttt.... both doggies go ballistic for it and wow is it ever healthy for them, how could i refuse

so happy to hear the clan is doing better. don't hesitate to "skirt the boundaries" if you have to, there are no hard and fast rules to raw feeding, you adapt it like you want to and as long as you follow the basic guidelines, it really works.

[SarahLynn123]

Thanks Technodoll! We will continue on with the raw diet and see how she does. Frozen tripe, great idea. I probably would gag trying bath her as she is running around the house covered in green tripe

I will update in a week or two when we introduce tripe and fish!

Sarah

[technodoll]

also, if you need some encouragement or just want to read up on stuff, here are a few great sites:

http://www.rawlearning.com/rawfaq.html

http://www.minden.com/nowhereelse/raw.htm

http://www.rawlearning.com/