#1
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Veterinary diets...
Ok, can somebody explain to me how these are good for your animal? How vets can recommend them? I know Heidiho had a rant about them last week, but now's my turn. Even vets who research nutrition more than others still back some of these foods, and I just don't get it.
Like this one, from the US's Royal Canin/Waltham IVD (innovative veterinary diet) line: Waltham Hypoallergenic HP For ingredients, see the pdf: http://www.walthamusa.com/Learning%2...r/pdf/HP19.pdf Quote:
Their canned Renal LP formula's first ingredients are: Quote:
Your dog has kidney failure, so you should feed mystery meats? Hill's in Canada is similar. This is their kidney formula (k/d): Quote:
And how is this: Quote:
I can't get the Purina vet diets' ingredients, but I've seen a couple and at least they have meat in them! They're still loaded with junk, in general, but they have meat and higher protein levels that correspond to the newer research, so I have to give them a little credit, when comparing to the rest of the vet diets out there. How are these diets better than holistic food, better than home-cooked? I really don't get how a few grains and sparce by-products are supposed to make our pets BETTER. If somebody knows, let me know. Last edited by Prin; April 14th, 2007 at 08:17 PM. |
#2
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There is a 14% protein formula available via the Vet's (it may well be one of these but, I'll have to check with my friend for the brand name) which is suitable for dogs with a history of oxalate stone formation.
This super-low protein content doesn't exist in any holistic or commercially available brand and while it can be done as home cooked or raw, it is beyond- believable difficult for the "average Jane-who-just-wants to scoop-kibble" to reproduce with all the other needed nutrients in a home-cooked diet. I know, I've looked for suitable alternatives. Her dawg is seemingly healthy and has been stone free for almost three years. Had he continued to have stones she would have had to PTS him because of the costs of urolithic surgery. Personally, I can't argue with that. |
#3
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I'll let you analyze them Prin, but a few of those Purina Vet formulas can be found here:
http://www.allivet.com/Dog-Diet-Food-s/163.htm |
#4
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Ooo thanks!
Mum, for some conditions, they do what they are supposed to do (i.e. keep the stones gone), but why do they have to be so crap to do so? They seem to target one thing and compromise the rest. Like, the bare minimum, WHY do they have to have menadione? |
#5
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Ooo, well the Purina Hypoallergenic is the same... :sad:
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See, their Joint Mobility one has a little bit of fish in it... At least. Quote:
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#6
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I'm not disagreeing with you Prin, I'm just suggesting that there are some instances where people are left with no choice.
Now, if the holistic community wants to step up to bat.... |
#7
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Let me rephrase my question into a few instead:
Why can't the vet food be healthier? Why does it all have to be cheap by-products and cost-saving corner-cutters? Why can't concerned owners be able to follow their vets' advice AND feed good food at the same time? Why don't the companies who make the vet foods take more responsibility and care for our pets? Why isn't there ONE line of foods that is balanced for whatever issue it needs to be balanced for AND is full of great, natural ingredients? The 'science' is already readily available to these companies. Why don't they use it to make BETTER foods rather than more cost effective foods? |
#8
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But some are trying, and they just don't get the recognition that the big 4 companies get.
ETA: But I do think they should try MUCH harder. Much. Last edited by Prin; April 14th, 2007 at 09:19 PM. |
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prin it's all about "profits first"... if it wasn't, the evidence would be in the bag, ie better quality ingredients formulated down the "proper" percentages of this and that. You don't need garbage ingredients to make a 14% diet... but you do need garbage ingredients to rake in a nice fat profit.
it's sad, but it's the bottom line. :sad:
__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine" Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints. :love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love: |
#10
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:sad: :sad:
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#11
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I think there isn't enough demand for these diets for the manufacturers to care. Come on Canidae, Orijen, etc. step up!
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#12
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I agree with Prin. These prescription diets don't have to be made with crap ingredients - they should be nutritious. I really makes me sad that vets push them. :sad: It's even sadder that the pets who end up on these 'foods' are the ones with health problems to begin with - I can't imagine how in the world it could make them feel better.
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Rescued is my favourite breed. |
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I agree that there is quite a demand although that is probably mainly due to peoples "blind faith" in their vets. In other words, if the vet sells it then of course it is what is best for my dog.
Interesting enough the mark-up % is only 1/3 for the vet (vet pays 30$ and sells for $39). That means that the manufacturer and the distributor must all be making big bucks.
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"Never doubt that a small, group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead |
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So just for kicks, I pulled out the vet wholesale price list that I have. The Aug 06 price list states (vet cost):
Hills K/D 40lb bag $68.16 Purina Hypo Allergeric formula 35 lb bag $72.44 Purina Joint Mobility formula 35 lb bag $57.74 and then add the profit percentage and the consumer is paying huge $$.
__________________
"Never doubt that a small, group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." - Margaret Mead |
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no kidding... one of those big bags of crap costs about $4 to make, bag and all (I read that somewhere). Makes one want to question the words "integrity" and "trust", eh?
__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine" Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints. :love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love: |
#16
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I think it's also worth mentionning that, to my knowledge, much of the nutritional info vets are given is provided by Hill's, Purina, etc. and they are given these products to use, so their expereince and basis of knowledge is so limited that they may think they are giving you the best.
Out of curiousity, does anyone know anything about Wysong Rx Diets? http://www.wysong.net/page/WOTTPWS/CTGY/RXDIET |
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wow THOSE make sense!! i clicked on half the links to see the ingredients and lo and behold, they use real food bravo! now why aren't vets carrying and pushing Wysong stuff instead of pathetic industry waste branded Hills, Purina, etc?
__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine" Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints. :love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love: |
#18
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I'm pretty sure it was the hills k/d that the vet wanted me to feed Layla after her little overdose. I remember saying something to the effects of "what, she wasn't close enough to death already, so now you want me to kill her with this food?" (It was 4 am.. I wasn't in the best mood...)
Needless to say, I then declined the suggestion, and told the vet I was intent on sticking to a raw diet.
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Sleep can wait, drink coffee! |
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Maybe traditional veterinary schools are different in other parts of the world, in terms of training on nutritional sciences. Last edited by Goldens4Ever; April 15th, 2007 at 11:53 AM. |
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#21
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omg, those wysong ones are actually ok! I really don't like wysong's regular stuff, but this stuff is so much better than the usual vet diets.
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#22
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.....but have you ever seen them anywhere? I'm kind of curious about what it would take to get vets to carry something like this, constant harrassment? Bribes?
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#23
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Demand... Unless Wysong goes vet to vet and sells this stuff hard core, the vets won't know about it.
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#24
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We used to have blind faith in our previous vet who had our dogs eating Iams, Eukanuba, & Science Diet. It was a pure God-send that I crossed paths with a Solid Gold rep a few years ago who enlightened me. I was utterly speechless & it took a few days for me to process that new information because I was so shocked. That was one of the biggest reasons why we switched to a holistic vet-we were really ticked off that our previous vets were recommending garbage & we naively trusted them. That garbage was contributing to the health problems they were experiencing. When we switched to holistic foods, the health of our dogs changed almost over night.....that's why this is a real hot button for me. For instance, our Cocker Spaniel (who died at 14 & is now deceased) lived on Iams her whole life, up until her last 2 years with us. She had chronic ear infections growing up & as she got older, she started having digestion problems, so our old vets had us mix pumpkin in her food. We did this for YEARS! Then, we switched her to a Solid Gold food & she was cured-no more problems, at all. Aspen's Seborrhea condition & ear infections were out of control while she was eating Eukanuba as a puppy. Once we switched her to Solid Gold & now Timberwolf Organics, her Seborrhea symptoms are of little notice anymore & she has had fewer ear problems! Plus, I also have to attribute it to the Organic Extra Virgin Coconut Oil & Omega 3, 6, 9 capsules, which the old vet would never have recommended. Goldie had problems with ear infections as a puppy. Now, she hasn't had an ear infection for.......2.5 years. Last edited by Goldens4Ever; April 15th, 2007 at 12:30 PM. |
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They carry Solid Gold, Wysong, Royal Canin, IVD, & Bravo! Raw. I'm not sure why they sell they well the Royal Canin, Wysong, & IVD because I don't think those are that great either. I wish they would sell Timberwolf Organics. Last edited by Goldens4Ever; April 15th, 2007 at 12:25 PM. |
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I don't know if it's fair to say that all vets are working primarily from a profit maximizing point of view. What I know of vet school, I only know from talking to a few vet students, and yes, they seem to have one really pathetic, elective, nutrition class plus maybe a few "workshops" given by Purina and company reps. I think though, that the problem is much more that vets, in large part, won't admit that they don't know about nutrition. I love my vet because through all my dog's GI issues, she's always basically told me that she could offer me Medi-cal or Purina Rx diets, but that they weren't necessarily the best and she was in full support of my trying homecooking or raw alternatives, she just didn't know enough to tell me how to do it. To me that's fine, I went out and found someone who specializes in nutrition, what is awful to me is the used car salesman routine alot of vets seem to launch into when trying to sell you a $40 bag of peanut hulls. |
#27
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It's interesting that you say that about vets not wanting to admit their deficiency in that area. I can understand why they would be reluctant to do so, because people rely upon them to be the experts in all areas of veterinary care. But then again, even though they don't receive much, if any, training in that area, maybe they still think that they do know a lot about it just because they are a veterinarian. |
#28
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I think all of us should take that website to our veterinarians and ask them to please look into it.
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#29
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If Purina and other crap companies can go into a vet school and teach about their foods why can't a good company do the same? All it would take is one rep approaching a school and offering teach about their food.
We could even take it into our own hands to a certain extent. What if we created a pamphlet about the quality of vet prescribed foods vs. the quality of food that we know exist out there. Do some thoughful research and compile it, with references, into a neat little package to distribute to our local vets. Even if they only read it and toss it, it might stick somewhere in their brains and eventually provoke some thought about the foods that they sell to trusting pet owners.
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"One cat just leads to another." - Ernest Hemingway Meowy Meowers - Angus n' Finn - 5 yrs old Barky Barker - Skylar - 4 yrs old?? |
#30
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