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Old November 18th, 2010, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HereToday View Post
I just went up and bought Wellness chicken, chicken and herring, Evo Turkey and Chicken and some Holistic Select brand - the pet food store said I shouldn't be feeding my cat these foods because they are high in protein. They said if I do only give her one table spoon a day. They should what I should be looking at is low protein foods like Science Died or Royal Canin. I phoned my vet who of course only recommended k/d so I told them my cat doesn't like it and she put me on hold and came back and said they have some other kind called Reducing Protein. I am completely confused - I said well what about the phosphorus and the pet food store said they had never heard of looking for low phosphorus content for a cat with kidney problems. They also said you can't buy Instinct in Canada now, something about the supplier. They said that the calories can be high for weight gain but not the protein because the kidneys can't process it. I did raise her dishes up on some phone books - she only eats little bits at a time so their must be some reason.
Wellness Chicken & Herring is too high 1.48% phos, you want less than 1.25% max.

Evo chicken & turkey - was that the purple label -cat & kitten @ 1.31% dm phos - OR the orange label -95% @ 0.88% dm phos -? Evo 95% Chicken & Turkey orange label is better as it is lower.

Many vets will only recommend their own prescription diets, alot of kidney cats will not eat it because there is not enough protein to make it palatable especially if they're not feeling good to begin with.

The people at the petfood store have obviously not done their research for a kidney cat appropriate diet. Phos levels are far more important than protein, yes many of the low protein foods will have low phos, but you can also get good protein with low phos. If you lower the protein too much the cats will refuse to eat it cuz it doesn't smell like food, they also start loosing muscle mass faster & can't regain any on restricted protein foods.

All Nature's Variety food are too high in phosphorus, with the exception of 1 flavour - Instinct Chicken. All other NV flavours should not be fed to a CRF cat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HereToday View Post
ok thanks, it is hard when they are using different measures, the first url says "It has been recommended to start protein restriction when the dog's BUN (blood urea nitrogen) is greater than 80 mg/dL, and the serum creatinine is greater than 2.5 mg/dL. Both BUN and serum creatinine are good indicators of kidney function. Protein is restricted in an attempt to keep the BUN below 60 mg/dL. " My results were given as creatinine has gone from 245 to 297 and her BUN when from 30.3 to 23.3. The measure they are using for creatinine must be a different one. Or maybe my cat's is away over?
That is in regards to Dogs which have different requirements than cats, and it's a US article so they are using the US Measurement system. The conversion for that article from US Measurement to Standard International would be BUN (80mg/dL US) 28.56mg/dL SI and Cre (2.5mg/dL US) 221umol/L SI but again this is regarding Dogs not cats.

The physiological kidney function is slightly different in dogs & cats, the bloodwork acceptable ranges for dogs are different than cats, and their food & treatment requirements will be slightly different as well.

Dogs don't concentrate their urine like cats do, dogs also naturally & normally drink far more water than cats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HereToday View Post
The third url says "If you are using a phosphorus binder, a low-phosphorus prescription diet may not be necessary, and simple readily-available canned foods may work fine. Low-protein prescription diets may exacerbate the anemia and muscle wastage commonly secondary to kidney disease, and may elevate Creatinine levels." Isn't epikitin a phosphorus binder? She is on that plus azodyl. The pet food store told me that the Fancy Feline food I had been giving her has too much salt and could have caused her kidney disease in the first place. My cats ate dried food for years tho, she has only eaten more of the canned food in the last couple of yrs.
Which is why you don't need the prescription food from the vet, but in choosing a food that is lower in phos you are allowing the Epakitin to work more efficiently.

Quote:
http://www.vetoquinolusa.com/CorePro.../Epakitin.html
For best results, it is suggested to use Epakitin in combination with a low phosphorous diet. However, Epakitin’s highly palatable formulation can be used with regular food in animals that refuse to change their diet.
After the phos comment from the food store people, not too sure I'd be listening too closely to their recommendations . Yes there is salt in the Fancy Feast canned but I would put more weight towards the lifelong dryfood diet & natural aging as causes of her kidney decline than a couple of years of eating the FF canned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HereToday View Post
and in the last url it says "The real culprit is actually phosphorus, which meat contains in large amounts. The only way to restrict phosphorus is to restrict protein." I have this bag of Royal Canin dry food that they recommended, don't know whether I should try to take it back or not, I already opened it but it is supposed to have some returnable guarantee - not sure if it is if your cat won't eat it or what. I am totally confused, I phoned my vet but all they would recommend is k/d or some other kind "reducing protein". I guess I will talk to the vet when I take her in for another blood test but until then???
And then it says:
Quote:
However, some studies have suggested that excessive restriction of protein may actually cause further damage to the kidneys and other organs, because there is not enough protein for normal body maintenance and repair. Experts say that these diets are not appropriate until the BUN (Blood Urea Nitrogen) is at least double what it should be normally {21.42 - 28.56mmol/L SI} (about 60-80 mg/dl US).

Furthermore, there is one big problem with using the protein-restricted commercial diets: many cats don't like them, and won't eat them. Obviously, it does little good to provide a special diet if the cat is going to starve to death!
Basically since you have your cat on a phos binder & azodyl, a lower phos diet is sufficient and she doesn't need a restricted protein prescription diet.

Take the RC back & tell them she won't eat it.

If you must have dryfood in addition to the canned, the 3 I mentioned in an earlier post have good dm phos numbers & are a better choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HereToday View Post
am able to give her the capsules covered in butter - she loves butter and it is working well - thanks very much for the tip, never thought I could do it myself after our experience giving her antibiotics
Excellent.
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