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Old September 20th, 2008, 11:53 PM
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Gail P Gail P is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LavenderRott View Post
I have to wonder why you think it is not possible for a working dog to get both conformation (show) titles and working titles?
I think that border collies are quite versatile enough to be able to do anything you want with them, but that breeding them for conformation will affect the breed, maybe not immediately but down the road. Do you put a herding title on them first and then enter the showring, and do no breeding until your dog has been proven in both areas? Or do you put their show championship on them first and then attempt herding, possibly to find out that maybe this particular dog doesn't quite have what it takes to excel at herding. By then, have you perhaps already bred your show champion? If so, you are producing pups that look great but do not have as strong a desire to work stock. A few generations of this and the breed has been diminished to pretty dogs that have lost their original purpose, or the breed becomes divided into show dogs and working dogs. I'm sure that there would be some people who would indeed prove their dogs both ways before breeding, but not all would, in fact I'd go so far as to say that probably many wouldn't, if they're not first and foremost stockdog people.

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Honestly - I think there is a huge difference between a "reputable" breeder and an "ethical" breeder.
Agreed.

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They want to improve on the lines they have and breed dogs that meet the standard (in looks) and are capable of doing the job that they were meant to do. This most certainly is possible.
How can a breed be standardized when the individuals differ so greatly? Little dogs (sub-30 pounds) big dogs (50-60 pounds), smooth coat, rough coat, a multitude of colours - yet why does everyone who thinks of a border collie think of a fluffy black and white dog with perfect white markings? If dogs with a certain look are placing better than others in the showring, what kind of puppies are the breeders of show dogs going to be producing? If you selectively breed for a certain look, you may be passing over wonderfully strong herding ability, which is what this particular breed is all about. What does the farmer/rancher really care most about, if his dog can get the job done efficiently or if it looks good? Wonderful if you happen to have it all rolled into one pretty package, but the border collie is first and foremost a stockdog and that is what you want to be breeding into them, working ability. My own three purebred BC's all vary greatly in looks, one is a 45 pound smooth-coat black and white female with nice markings except for only having a bit of white on the back of her neck, one is a 55 pound black and white rough-coated male with nice white on his body but only minimal white on his face, and the youngest is a 58 pound giant of a puppy at only 10 months old. He's a long, lean coarser looking smooth-coated red & white puppy with uneven markings (face is nicely marked, but only one white leg and half his neck). He doesn't even look like a border collie to many people, they think he's some kind of mix-breed. He's been taken to sheep and has shown interest in working, which is something that we will be doing more of with him as he matures. Will he excel at herding? Too early to say. Would he do well in the show ring? Never. But he is every bit as much a full-blooded border collie as his fluffy black and white half-brother.

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If the "working" border collie people in Canada are upset about their breed being excepted by the Canadian Kennel Club and concerned that bloodlines will become all about looks and not working ability - maybe they should take the time to become members of the National breed club. It is my understanding that the National breed clubs set the standard for the breed and the National registries use that standard when it comes to judging and such.
It's not just a Canadian point of view. Most of the members on the BC boards http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php are from the US and share a similar viewpoint. I believe that in every forum on that board there is a message titled something like "welcome to the BC Boards - Read this First" that explains the board views of preserving the border collie as a working breed.
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