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-   -   5 month doberman with has 2 UTI's - Answered by Dr. Lee (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=52395)

London May 17th, 2008 08:34 AM

5 month doberman with has 2 UTI's - Answered by Dr. Lee
 
Approximately 1 month ago my husband and I noticed that London, our 4.5 month old (at the time) female doberman pinscher was urinating very frequently, including in the house, and it had a terrible odor along with small clots of blood.

We immediately took her to our veterinarian and when they took a urinalysis they told us she had a UTI and gave us 2 weeks of antibiotics. Over the 2 weeks, we saw no blood, and she was urinating normally (outside!!). 4 days after we stopped the antibiotics, we noticed the foul smelling urine, again with blood clots, and frequent urination.

This time we took her to another vet simply because of recommendations from other pet owners. This time, we had a urinalysis done (which obviously showed she had a UTI), blood work, and an x-ray to check for stones or anything not may not be properly developed. The x-ray turned out fine so now we are waiting until next week when we get results from a lab indicating exactly what kind of bacteria(s) is causing this. At that time, we will put her on the proper medication.

Does anybody have any other ideas of what you think it might be?

We usually take her to the dog park a few times a week, which let's face it, is never a really clean place.

We feed her Solid Gold puppy, and because she likes it, I very seldom add water to it. I recently read to no longer do that, as bacteria builds up as it sits there.

She also stays in a crate while we are at work during the day. Before we noticed the blood in her urine again, we noticed she was urinating in her crate a little more often than normal and lying in it for the few hours we are gone. We are always sure to clean the crate very well before puting her back in, but could it possibly build up harmful bacteria in the time we are gone?

ANY input would be helpful as we want to get our baby taken care of!!:fingerscr

Dr Lee May 17th, 2008 01:29 PM

A couple of thoughts.

First. This may just be the same urinary tract infection. The only way to be sure that a UTI is gone is to perform a sterile urine collection (cystocentesis) 10 - 14 days after completion of the antibiotic course and to have a negative urine culture test results. (and this still would not be 100% sure). With this said, for a first time infection, this is rarely done. I usually do exactly as your vet did - UTI signs, urinalysis that supported infection, 2-3 week course of antibioitics and 'see how it goes'.

When it 'comes back' - we are not sure if it is a new infection or if the first infection was just suppressed clinically for a period of time from the antibiotic course. So then I would do, again as your vet did, repeat urinalysis and add on blood work, radiographs and urine culture. When the test results come back, then I would adjust the antibiotics as needed and repeat a urine culture 10-14 days after completion of the medication.

If at that time the culture comes back negative, then I would monitor for recurrence. If the UTI recurred, then we would have a pet that is having recurrent infections. For females, since their urethra is shorter and wider than males, often times they get ascending urinary tract infections (bacteria that moves from the vulva, up the urethra and into the bladder). Individual susceptibility and anatomy are usually the cause of this. Obesity can help predispose pets to UTIs. Occasionally it is environmental if they get a lot of dirt/debris/feces on or around the vulva.

If the culture comes back positive, then it is important to note if it is the same bacteria or a different bacteria. Some UTIs need a prolonged course of antibiotics and some will switch from one bacteria to another due to suppression by the antibiotic and resistance of the other bacteria.

So at this point, I do not think there is any reason to panic. There may be a simple solution to this. Lets monitor the patient and see how this culture and the follow up culture turn out.

Hope this helps. :pawprint:

kiara May 17th, 2008 02:10 PM

Sitting in urine all day, especially if the dog is prone to these infections cannot be good. I guess you have to do it since she is a puppy getting trained. Perhaps you should put a towel in it to absorb the urine? What does the vet recommend? If the park is dirty (feces lying around), I would rather let her do her business in my own backyard, if you have one. Bladder infections are often related to stress and maybe she feels lonely by being alone all day. Also very important, which the vet did not tell you is that you must wash her privates often. And it has to be done front to back always, not to transfer feces to the front. I don't know what food is good, as I am more into cats at this stage of my life, dry is probably the best but make sure you put a lot of water into it and give her just enough so that she eats all of it. And wash the bowls often. We have stainless steel bowls for our cats and we wash them in the dishwasher. Also as a preventive measure (you have to ask your vet) maybe some cranberry juice would be good to add. This is used in human medicine. Good luck with your puppy.

Dr Lee May 17th, 2008 02:35 PM

[QUOTE=kiara;594117]Also as a preventive measure (you have to ask your vet) maybe some cranberry juice would be good to add. This is used in human medicine.[/QUOTE]

I have had several clients use cranberry pills for their dogs. I do not know of any studies that support this one way or the other with dogs but I know of a couple clients that swear by it.

badger May 17th, 2008 03:52 PM

[QUOTE]Sitting in urine all day, especially if the dog is prone to these infections cannot be good.[/QUOTE]

You can get incontinence pads at the pharmacy, it might help with the accidents in his crate.

London May 17th, 2008 08:23 PM

[QUOTE=Dr Lee;594109]A couple of thoughts.

First. This may just be the same urinary tract infection. The only way to be sure that a UTI is gone is to perform a sterile urine collection (cystocentesis) 10 - 14 days after completion of the antibiotic course and to have a negative urine culture test results. (and this still would not be 100% sure). With this said, for a first time infection, this is rarely done. I usually do exactly as your vet did - UTI signs, urinalysis that supported infection, 2-3 week course of antibioitics and 'see how it goes'.

When it 'comes back' - we are not sure if it is a new infection or if the first infection was just suppressed clinically for a period of time from the antibiotic course. So then I would do, again as your vet did, repeat urinalysis and add on blood work, radiographs and urine culture. When the test results come back, then I would adjust the antibiotics as needed and repeat a urine culture 10-14 days after completion of the medication.

If at that time the culture comes back negative, then I would monitor for recurrence. If the UTI recurred, then we would have a pet that is having recurrent infections. For females, since their urethra is shorter and wider than males, often times they get ascending urinary tract infections (bacteria that moves from the vulva, up the urethra and into the bladder). Individual susceptibility and anatomy are usually the cause of this. Obesity can help predispose pets to UTIs. Occasionally it is environmental if they get a lot of dirt/debris/feces on or around the vulva.

If the culture comes back positive, then it is important to note if it is the same bacteria or a different bacteria. Some UTIs need a prolonged course of antibiotics and some will switch from one bacteria to another due to suppression by the antibiotic and resistance of the other bacteria.

So at this point, I do not think there is any reason to panic. There may be a simple solution to this. Lets monitor the patient and see how this culture and the follow up culture turn out.

Hope this helps. :pawprint:[/QUOTE]


Ok, that just gave me a much better understanding of everything, so thanks!

That is everything we are doing, but this time we will be sure to check again after about 2 weeks of medication to make sure it is actually gone. :pray:

London May 17th, 2008 08:31 PM

[QUOTE=kiara;594117]Sitting in urine all day, especially if the dog is prone to these infections cannot be good. I guess you have to do it since she is a puppy getting trained. Perhaps you should put a towel in it to absorb the urine? What does the vet recommend? If the park is dirty (feces lying around), I would rather let her do her business in my own backyard, if you have one. Bladder infections are often related to stress and maybe she feels lonely by being alone all day. Also very important, which the vet did not tell you is that you must wash her privates often. And it has to be done front to back always, not to transfer feces to the front. I don't know what food is good, as I am more into cats at this stage of my life, dry is probably the best but make sure you put a lot of water into it and give her just enough so that she eats all of it. And wash the bowls often. We have stainless steel bowls for our cats and we wash them in the dishwasher. Also as a preventive measure (you have to ask your vet) maybe some cranberry juice would be good to add. This is used in human medicine. Good luck with your puppy.[/QUOTE]


It is definately tough to keep her from sitting in her urine. We give her a towel, she shreds it. She usally goes in the crate at 8 then my husband is home from work at around 12. Before the UTI she was holding it most of the time but now that she urinates every 10 minutes it's a little tough! We also thought about letting her hang out in the laundry room for those few hours and leaving her a potty pad and her bed, but the little turd somehow figured out how to open the door. :shrug:

There isn't much feces lying around the dog park, but just as a precaution we are avoiding it from now on.

I had heard about giving dogs a cranberry supplement but after looking today I wasnt sure on the mg's I should use so I decided to wait and talk to the vet about that. :)

ancientgirl May 17th, 2008 08:59 PM

I don't know if this would work, but could you maybe put the crate on something to keep it off the ground and put some kind of a pad under it? If she peed it would go down through the crate and she at least wouldn't be sitting in it.:shrug:

Dr Lee May 18th, 2008 12:19 AM

ancientgirl that is a good idea. In hospitals there are two common solutions. First is a grate with padding below. The other is a fleece with padding below. The fleeces can be obtained at fabric supply stores and due to their synthetic nature and porous bottom - the urine goes through the fleece and soaks into the padding below.

ancientgirl May 18th, 2008 07:49 AM

Thanks Dr. Lee. I thought this morning about something they use in some restaurants. It's like a rubber mat with holes in it. The mat is raised slightly off the ground and the holes are big, I imagine it's so liquid falls through and nobody slips.

London May 18th, 2008 08:57 PM

Today I tried folding 2 towels for her to sit on but by the time I got home she had moved them and therefore made the attempt uneffective. :frustrated:

I think I will probably get some fleece but put something underneath it to prevent sliding as much as possible. :thumbs up Ha, I'll let ya know how that one goes!

London May 19th, 2008 06:17 PM

The vet called today and said that they found no bacteria in the culture. :confused: If there is no bacteria, then what would cause a UTI???

The vet is having us bring in another urine sample for another urinalysis. I'm not sure what she's looking for now, but hopefully we find something so we can get her taken care of!

Speaking of, anybody recommend a particular company for pet insurance (after spending $1000 in the last few weeks (including her getting spayed), we are POOR!!!)?? :2cents: :p

ancientgirl May 19th, 2008 06:46 PM

I hope your vet can figure out what is wrong with her. :fingerscr

I have Czarina insured with the ASPCA insurance and I used to insure the gang with a company called Pet Care. I know some people have just a separate credit card and only use it for their pets. I have one that has low credit on it, but I use it (when the balance is low) for any vet visits. I'd like to do that with two other cards I am trying to pay down. To just have them for vet visits.

The only problem with getting them insurance is you still have to pay up front for anything like an illness. Then you fill out a claim form and you get back whatever your policy gives you.

London May 19th, 2008 08:15 PM

[QUOTE=ancientgirl;594922]I hope your vet can figure out what is wrong with her. :fingerscr

I have Czarina insured with the ASPCA insurance and I used to insure the gang with a company called Pet Care. I know some people have just a separate credit card and only use it for their pets. I have one that has low credit on it, but I use it (when the balance is low) for any vet visits. I'd like to do that with two other cards I am trying to pay down. To just have them for vet visits.

The only problem with getting them insurance is you still have to pay up front for anything like an illness. Then you fill out a claim form and you get back whatever your policy gives you.[/QUOTE]

We are still talking about whether we should look into it or not. If UTI's are going to be a reoccurring thing then we definately want to get insurance as the $300 per visit will quickly add up.

On another note, PLEASE keep your fingers crossed that we get everything sorted out and her on a proper medication asap! I can look in her eyes and see that she is just so worn out. :sad: Not to mention it has gotten where she dribbles on her way outside or to the potty pad when she has to go to the bathroom (which is literally every 2 minutes) because she just can't hold it in. :pray:

ancientgirl May 19th, 2008 08:27 PM

[QUOTE=London;595022]We are still talking about whether we should look into it or not. If UTI's are going to be a reoccurring thing then we definately want to get insurance as the $300 per visit will quickly add up.

On another note, PLEASE keep your fingers crossed that we get everything sorted out and her on a proper medication asap! I can look in her eyes and see that she is just so worn out. :sad: Not to mention it has gotten where she dribbles on her way outside or to the potty pad when she has to go to the bathroom (which is literally every 2 minutes) because she just can't hold it in. :pray:[/QUOTE]

They will ask you for medical records and most won't cover pre-existing conditions. So if you do decide you need to be clear on what they will cover and your pup's past health. Many people insurance company's won't cover pre-existing conditions for 12-24 months depending on the carrier and pet insurance companies are similar in that.

Were you able to talk to your vet about giving her cranberry juice? I just can't imagine what it could be if not a UTI. When are you taking her new sample to them?

Puppy_Pal May 22nd, 2008 03:15 PM

Is there any possibility that it could be incontinence due to being spayed.
I have a similar problem with my pup and this is what my vet thinks it might be, although she only has 1 or 2 accidents a week when she sleeps so I haven't taken drastic action just yet in hopes she'll outgrow it.
It might be worth mentioning to the vet. I am told it is not that uncommon and can be easily treated with estrogen or other very affordable drugs ($15-20) month.
If it is dripping out while she walks and she doesn't appear in very much discomfort, it could be a real possibility.
Good luck with whatever it might be. I know it's frustrating.
:thumbs up

wasa September 14th, 2010 12:30 PM

[QUOTE=London;594045]Approximately 1 month ago my husband and I noticed that London, our 4.5 month old (at the time) female doberman pinscher was urinating very frequently, including in the house, and it had a terrible odor along with small clots of blood.

We immediately took her to our veterinarian and when they took a urinalysis they told us she had a UTI and gave us 2 weeks of antibiotics. Over the 2 weeks, we saw no blood, and she was urinating normally (outside!!). 4 days after we stopped the antibiotics, we noticed the foul smelling urine, again with blood clots, and frequent urination.

This time we took her to another vet simply because of recommendations from other pet owners. This time, we had a urinalysis done (which obviously showed she had a UTI), blood work, and an x-ray to check for stones or anything not may not be properly developed. The x-ray turned out fine so now we are waiting until next week when we get results from a lab indicating exactly what kind of bacteria(s) is causing this. At that time, we will put her on the proper medication.

Does anybody have any other ideas of what you think it might be?

We usually take her to the dog park a few times a week, which let's face it, is never a really clean place.

We feed her Solid Gold puppy, and because she likes it, I very seldom add water to it. I recently read to no longer do that, as bacteria builds up as it sits there.

She also stays in a crate while we are at work during the day. Before we noticed the blood in her urine again, we noticed she was urinating in her crate a little more often than normal and lying in it for the few hours we are gone. We are always sure to clean the crate very well before puting her back in, but could it possibly build up harmful bacteria in the time we are gone?

ANY input would be helpful as we want to get our baby taken care of!!:fingerscr[/QUOTE]

Hello London,
I know it's been some time since you wrote this thread but I've just know ran across it. I too have a Doberman, now 5 yrears old and have been fighting her urinary infections for at least 2 years now. We've been to at least 5 vets with NO success expect spending about $4,000 in vet bills. Please tell me if you ever found any answers to your dogs problems.
Sincerely,
S.Jacobs

cell September 14th, 2010 02:17 PM

A woman who lives near me had the same issue with her doberman, there was infections that seemed not to go away and then they found it was spay incontinence, now the dog takes a inexpensive medication once in the morning and no longer leaves puddles as it sleeps. Might be something to discuss with your vet.


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