[QUOTE=LL1]I understand some forces use rescues BTW.[/QUOTE]

This is what I meant.

You're wrong.Several forces do,Barrie and Whitby being just a couple.I'm in rescue and I know rescue has been approached.Whitby is preferred as the dogs live in the homes according to SPCA staff.In the US,its' even more prolific,a friend rescues Sheps there and they supply all kinds of places.In Ontario if it is a proper force with money,they import the dogs from New York and they are Czech dogs,if they are rinky dink,they get from a shelter or rescue or an Ontario or Canadian breeder.

Its more common in the states, police and sherrifs depts in Texas,Iowa,Wisconsin and Maryland use rescue Sheps,Florida,New England,New Jersey State Police,New York State Police,Austin Police Force,Air Force,K9,SAR,coast guard,sheriff's offices,dept of corrections,ground zero,you name it,rescued GSDs are there.New England has placed dogs for both dual purpose patrol and single purpose,and SAR. In the UK all police dogs are donated or from rescue.

MANY bomb sniffing/drug detection etc dogs come from shelters and pounds. The parentage or breed is not important as drive and determination are paramount, along with good temperament.

It's ironic that many dogs are dumped for having too much drive, energy or determination - qualities that are prized by police/armed forces, SAR and as hearing dogs etc.

Oops - getting off topic here. Sowwy! :p

What about breeding for specific traits, such as the pushed in noses of persians and bulldogs. How can this be considered for the betterment of the breed? It breaks my heart to see the respiratory problems these pets suffer. And why must some breeds have cosmetic surgery to meet the standards of the breed? Dobies, for example.

[QUOTE]What about breeding for specific traits, such as the pushed in noses of persians and bulldogs. How can this be considered for the betterment of the breed[/QUOTE]
that's what I was referring to when I was talking about breeding for extremes of the breed not being in the best interest of the animal. Diddn't want to name specifics though and get in trouble!! :sad:

[QUOTE=glasslass]And why must some breeds have cosmetic surgery to meet the standards of the breed? Dobies, for example.[/QUOTE]

The standards were written way back when the breed actually worked. :(
Don't open up Pandora's box, Vets refuse to crop ears, but will declaw a cat. Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy in this? Oh right, one is cosmetic, the other is outright mutilation.

[QUOTE=luckyrescue]MANY bomb sniffing/drug detection etc dogs come from shelters and pounds. The parentage or breed is not important as drive and determination are paramount, along with good temperament.[/QUOTE]

I was under the impression that, bomb/drug sniffing dogs began training at the age of 8 weeks, and that parentage is paramount for selection. Have I been misinformed?

[QUOTE=luckyrescue]and even human aggression if the dog is a winner in conformation or performance. I saw this myself recently when a (gasp!) Golden Retriever savagely attacked it's handler for no reason and continued with the showing while the handler went to the emergency room.[/QUOTE]

From what I've just read, aggression toward other dogs is acceptable, and aggression toward humans is cause for dismissal.

[QUOTE=ll1]You're right.And you can get dogs with papers in rescue,as well as purebred puppies.I don't see any need to go to a breeder.The worst of course are those who's breed are killed in shelters all the time.People who go to breeders for those dogs make me ill.[/QUOTE]

*bows head in shame* I've seen very few Doberman's in shelters and rescues. You want to know what makes me sick? People who sit around and whine about pet overpopulation and don't have the cahonas to do diddly about it. You're preaching to the pervert pal.

[QUOTE=mona_b]No we are not breeders.So you can stop scratching your head.[/QUOTE]

*smiles*, just bought a flea collar.

[QUOTE=luckyrescue]You know for a fact that these dogs were bred and discarded by MIRA? If Mira is breeding and dumping puppies at shelters, they are no better than any other backyard breeder and should be regarded as such. Many breeds can be used as service and guide dogs, and there is no reason to be breeding for this, as the odds of getting suitable puppies by breeding is no better than pulling dogs from shelters and training them for this work.[/QUOTE]


I don't really care who's dumping the dogs, the fact is they are getting dumped, and they are the 'Mira Dog'. They are being pawned off as purebred dogs, sad but true.

Note:[I]3. Any dog exhibiting an aggressive attitude that in the judges' opinion would prevent them from FULLY examining any given dog safely, and without incident, shall be disqualified from all events conducted that day. This same dog shall be crated for the remainder of the day, or be removed from the premises of the show site. There will be no refunds of entry fees for dogs that are disqualified. [/I]

I found this clause in every instance under 'Dog show rules'.

Dar.

PS: The French ring is a more vigorous test on K9/protection dogs than the shutzhund, this came straight from several trainers that I met. The Belgian Malinois has also become the dog du jour.

[QUOTE=BigDogLover]
I was under the impression that, bomb/drug sniffing dogs began training at the age of 8 weeks, and that parentage is paramount for selection. Have I been misinformed?

. The Belgian Malinois has also become th dog du jour.[/QUOTE]

Yes,you have been misinformed.

Well here in ontario,a few forces have tried using the Malinois.But most have stopped.Their prey drive is far to high than a GSD's.

[QUOTE=mona_b]Yes,you have been misinformed.

Well here in Ontario,a few forces have tried using the Malinois.But most have stopped.Their prey drive is far to high than a GSD's.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I was referring to the age that training begins, sorry for the confusion. As for the Malinois they are still highly heralded in Europe and most of the US. Mona, could you help me on that age issue?

Dar.

For these dogs,it depends.They mostly would like the dog to be at least a year.There are training centres that will start training at 5 months.But this is what they do though.They start training these pups,then once they are fully trained,then they are sold to the force.The handler and the dog go through at least 2-3 weeks of training together.It ends up costing the force about $17.000 for a trained dog....Hope this helped... :)

I apologize for the going 'off topic', but K9 dogs fascinate me. I owe Lucky an apology for my post with regards to age, however, I am certain that parentage remains paramount.


Dar.

You should start a new thread about K9's............... :D

[QUOTE]I was under the impression that, bomb/drug sniffing dogs began training at the age of 8 weeks, and that parentage is paramount for selection. Have I been misinformed?[/QUOTE]

Yes you were misinformed. No 8 week old puppy would be put to sniffing accelerants or bombs.

Parentage is unknown with shelter dogs. As long as they have the right stuff for the job, no one cares where they came from.

[QUOTE]I don't really care who's dumping the dogs, the fact is they are getting dumped, and they are the 'Mira Dog'. They are being pawned off as purebred dogs, sad but true.[/QUOTE]

You said the organization MIRA is dumping excess dogs in shelters, now you say they are merely the MIRA-type mixed breed dogs. Big difference. If MIRA is not doing the dumping they should not be accused of this.

I never said Mira is dumping the dogs, I said they are known as the 'Mira Dog'. There is nothing worse than being misquoted. I will however say this, Mira created a breed of dog, the Labernois, for a specific purpose. We'll accept this, but not the labradoodle. See the hypocrisy here?

Furthermore, I have never said that Mira is dumping the dogs, I said that these dogs are popping up in shelters and rescues like wildflowers. You were insinuating that the Labradoodle breeders are responsible for the labddodle in rescue, I merely pointed out an alternative.

Dar.

Many of the people here are doing something about it,and are rescuing animals.Dobes do land in shelters and rescues in the US and Canada.
[QUOTE=BigDogLover]
*bows head in shame* I've seen very few Doberman's in shelters and rescues. You want to know what makes me sick? People who sit around and whine about pet overpopulation and don't have the cahonas to do diddly about it. .[/QUOTE]

You said it not me.
[QUOTE=BigDogLover]
You're preaching to the pervert pal.

[/QUOTE]

That should be 'preaching to the perverted', lol!

Rescuing a dog, to give to someone else, does not constitute, 'doing something'. I'm talking fliers handed out in front of pet shops, newspaper interviews, news interviews 'en masse'. Taking it to the public, educating them, this is what I'm talking about. I'm a new Dawg on the scene, and I'm exploring the best avenues to lay down my bite.


Arf,
Dar.

Sorry for the double post.

[QUOTE=bigdoglover]

1 - Any takers? Our highly esteemed Mira is breeding 'Labernois' dogs, anyone care to comment on this.
2 - What about Mira? Should we hold them accountable for their 'Labernois'? I've seen many of these sad little creatures in shelters and rescues.
3 - Please, will someone address the 'Labernois', aka, the Mira dog.

[/QUOTE]

This is all that I've said with regard to Mira, I have never once said they were dumping the dogs.

OK what/who is Mira and what is a labernois???!

[QUOTE]Vets refuse to crop ears, but will declaw a cat. Am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy in this? [/QUOTE]

NO I agree - again if people were EDUCATED on how to get a cat NOT to scratch the furniture - it's not that difficult, and if people would actually put forth the EFFORT to try to train their cat to use a scratching post....declawing would not be necessary!!!!!

I don't totally fault the vets - I fault the owners - if the vet didn't declaw the cat would be put down most likely! :(

I was wondering the same thing...LOL

I'm guessing a Labernois is a Labrador/Belgian Malinois mix??????????????

Mira is the Dog foundation for the blind, I gues only in Quebec. A Labernois is the cross between a Lab and a Bernese Mountain Dog.


Dar.

I think you mean preaching to the CONVERTED or preaching to the choir.Preaching to the perverted is very disturbing.Do a look up on dictionary.com and you will learn what that word means.
[QUOTE=BigDogLover]That should be 'preaching to the perverted', lol!

Arf,
Dar.[/QUOTE]

I disagree.Rescuing a dog and neutering/spaying it and placing it in a new home does constitute doing something.Many rescues also speak to the public through all kinds of media,paper,radio,television,magazines,websites etc.
[QUOTE=BigDogLover]
Rescuing a dog, to give to someone else, does not constitute, 'doing something'. I'm talking fliers handed out in front of pet shops, newspaper interviews, news interviews 'en masse'. Taking it to the public, educating them, this is what I'm talking about. I'm a new Dawg on the scene, and I'm exploring the best avenues to lay down my bite.


Arf,
Dar.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BigDogLover]A Labernois is the cross between a Lab and a Bernese Mountain Dog.[/QUOTE]
Maybe I missed an earlier post, but what would be the benefit of this mix in this line of work, as opposed to a pure-bred Lab or Berner?

[QUOTE=meowzart]OK what/who is Mira and what is a labernois???![/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.mira.ca/contenta/nc1-3a.html[/url]

In english it is the The Labernese and in french it is
Le Labernois because Bernese is Bernois apparently.
Because by calling it a labernois you would never think (as someone speaking english) that the cross would be BMD and lab, you would think belgian malinois and lab, I dont know if its just me but thats what i thought.

Dobermom, that's what I thought too.
I Googled "Mira Labernois" and got the site. Had to translate it to English.

From their site:
"Mira Foundation possesses livestock of 1000 dogs and insures a follow-up of the dog throughout its life."

They have "livestock" of over 1000 dogs on site? And this ensures followup how?
No mention of any foundation dogs, sire/dam info, or anything specific about all this genetic testing & what have you they supposedly do so carefully. Just lots of talk...

[QUOTE=BigDogLover]Mira is the Dog foundation for the blind, I gues only in Quebec. A Labernois is the cross between a Lab and a Bernese Mountain Dog.


Dar.[/QUOTE]

Thank you... :)

So now we have a Labernois.

Oh man will it EVER end..... :sad:

[QUOTE=Writing4Fun]Maybe I missed an earlier post, but what would be the benefit of this mix in this line of work, as opposed to a pure-bred Lab or Berner?[/QUOTE]

There is no befefit in my eyes.