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-   -   Ava and Penny (http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=70023)

luckypenny May 5th, 2010 12:54 PM

Ava and Penny
 
This is really difficult for me to be writing. Ava and Penny, after 2 1/2 years of us being able to manage their squabbles, have gotten into a serious fight yesterday morning. For the first time, I wasn't able to distract or call one of them off. It went on for at least 10 minutes without a pause...this time it wasn't simple quarreling amongst them. Once I finally managed to get between them and my son able to get a hold of Ava to help me separate them, we realized how bad the damage was. They were both brought to the vet clinic where their wounds were shaved and cleaned, Penny needing staples to close a gash on her leg. Ava sustained injuries to her entire face (deep punctures); and front legs...Penny to her left leg, shoulder and stomach.

The vet confirmed this was as serious as fights get...we can't let them have any contact with each other, ever.

I'm not looking for advice on how to deal with this, we've sought help from behaviorists/trainers, from trusted friends with experience...I've read every friggen book out there...we've tried everything. I just want you, those who have gotten to know my girls, what is happening.

My head hurts from trying to figure what went wrong yesterday, what else we could have done, and where to from here. We're devastated :(.

Melinda May 5th, 2010 12:59 PM

*huge hugs* for you and your girls, its not an easy situation , we dealt with it for 3 yrs, its a tough situation and a sad one. Its so hard loving two dogs when they fight each other, my heart breaks for you and the choices you have to make. Good luck and you know we're behind you in whatever you chose to do. Did you get hurt in the scuffle??

Winston May 5th, 2010 01:01 PM

LP I just want to send as many hugs to you as I can! I know how much you must be hurting. You are probably a tad overwhelmed with it all.

Please now your friends are here to listen and not make judgements.

I hope they are both okay now. I hope the trainers and behaviourist can help you come up with a solution.

Thinking of you mf! :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Cindy

breeze May 5th, 2010 01:04 PM

I am very sorry LP that this has happened ..
I know that you have tried everything until your head explodes. researching, getting advice and all,
it must be beyond devastation for you..
:grouphug::grouphug:

luckypenny May 5th, 2010 01:05 PM

Thank you Melinda. After 10 minutes, I could tell they were exhausted, probably why I was able to force myself between them without getting hurt. I used a shovel to separate their heads (no, I didn't hurt them) and put my body between them. My son took hold of Ava's collar and led her to the garage while I blocked Penny from going after her. We couldn't chance taking Penny as she would be the one to most likely re-direct.

diandpat May 5th, 2010 01:06 PM

OMG of course you are devastated :grouphug: Sometimes they just can't get along, regardless of the handler. I can only imagine how heartbroken you are. I wish you wisdom and peace in any decisions/arrangements you end up figuring out.
:goodvibes::goodvibes::goodvibes:

luckypenny May 5th, 2010 01:06 PM

Winston, Breeze, thank you. Overwhelmed is accurate :cry:.

Love4himies May 5th, 2010 01:07 PM

Oh no, Lp :( :grouphug:. What a difficult position this has put you in, I don't envy you.

I have to keep Sweet Pea and Puddles separated which is hard enough, I can't imagine keeping to dogs apart. :grouphug:

breeze May 5th, 2010 01:08 PM

[QUOTE=luckypenny;915197]Winston, Breeze, thank you. Overwhelmed is accurate :cry:.[/QUOTE]

don't forget to breath

TeriM May 5th, 2010 01:09 PM

I'm so sorry LP, how horrible that must have been for everyone :(.

I totally trust that you will make the best decisions for the family. All decisions would be made with so much love in your heart for both dogs and that is always the best.

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

BrownEyedGirl May 5th, 2010 01:27 PM

I'm so sorry to hear this, what a difficult situation. How heartbreaking. <<hugs>> and prayers as you decide the best course.

Frenchy May 5th, 2010 02:06 PM

Again LP , I am so sorry. :(

I saw for myself yesterday afternoon how bad the injuries are. :(

I know how hard you have worked with these dogs , to make everything ok. At this point , there's nothing more you can do. As the vet and his staff told you , I also think it would be best to rehome Ava. :(

Separating the dogs wouldn't be fair for any of them , for you , and for your family. And accidents could still happen , and I don't want to think what could happen ... the next fight could be fatal for one dog.

Only once did I had to separate dogs. A foster , for only a month. It was hard on myself , the foster , and my dogs.

You did so much for Ava , you only took her in to help someone that was in a bad situation , you were only suppose to have her for a few months , and ended up having to keep her. I know you love Ava and didn't mind keeping her but , you were put in front of a situation were you didn't really have a choice.....

And I must add , Ava is a very good girl , she's ok with most dogs , and loves humans. I just think she should go to a nice calm couple , with no other dogs so she can retire and get all the loving she can get.

I know , it kills you to read this :( but there's no other options.

:grouphug:

Chris21711 May 5th, 2010 02:16 PM

You must be totally distraught LP, big hugs to you :grouphug:.

Lately you mentioned that Lucky had been a bit squabbly, which is out of character for him....I'm wondering if that boy of yours with his 6th sense noticed the tension building up between the girls and it was his way of trying to lay down the law a bit.

Tundra_Queen May 5th, 2010 02:41 PM

LP, I'm so very sorry this happened and the girls got hurt. ((HUGS HUGS) I don't know what else to say, except I will be thinking of you and the hard choices u have to make. :grouphug:

babymomma May 5th, 2010 02:50 PM

Would it be a possibiltiy to do crate and rotate? I know Alot of people are able to make it work, while others cant.

((((((hugs))))))) LP :(

Dog Dancer May 5th, 2010 03:19 PM

Lp I'm so sorry to hear this. You've tried so hard to make it all work and now this. I know you will do what is best for Ava and the others no matter what. I just don't know what to say except that we all know that whatever you do will be done with love and the best interest of the dogs. :grouphug: to you, I'm thankful that you and your son were not injured in this. :(

rainbow May 5th, 2010 03:31 PM

LP, I am so very sorry to hear this :( .....you must be devastated. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

And, as hard as it is to do, I agree with Frenchy about rehoming Ava. :2huggers:

BenMax May 5th, 2010 03:37 PM

Like I said yesterday LP - I would re-home. This has now become a very dangerous situation and not only stressful for the human residence, but for the canine pack as well.

:grouphug: to you LP.

Marcha May 5th, 2010 04:00 PM

((((((LP))))))) I'm so sorry to read this. I hope that Ava and Penny will recover from their wounds quickly and completely. I wish you wisdom and strength to do what needs to be done for everyone's well-being. Much love from our home to yours.

14+kitties May 5th, 2010 05:24 PM

I am not going to offer any advise. Your heart will tell you what is right. Just know we love you and support you. :grouphug::grouphug: Stay strong my dear. :grouphug::grouphug:
Big hugs for the girls too. I know they have to be hurting as well. :grouphug:

chico2 May 5th, 2010 05:29 PM

L-P,I am so very sorry what a very scary,heartbreaking situation:cry:
I know you love them very much and whatever you decide,we are all 100% behind you.
If Ava needs rehoming,you'll be doing it out of love for both Penny and Ava,hopefully there is a wonderful family out there that will give her a chance:fingerscr

hazelrunpack May 5th, 2010 11:01 PM

:grouphug:

Dee-O-Gee May 5th, 2010 11:10 PM

How heart renching LP.

Whatever decision you make, please know that we're here to support you and it.

Here I go saying this again but; where there is love...there is pain.

:grouphug: :grouphug:

krdahmer May 5th, 2010 11:18 PM

I'm so sorry that must have been so scary.:( I hope they both heal quickly.:goodvibes: I'll say a :pray: for your family tonight. :grouphug:

growler~GateKeeper May 5th, 2010 11:56 PM

LP :2huggers:

:goodvibes: speedy healing Penny

:goodvibes: speedy healing Ava

I'm so glad you & your son were not hurt :grouphug:

JennieV May 5th, 2010 11:56 PM

OMG, LP.. :( when I saw Ava and Penny and a sad smiley on, my heart sank and apparently for a reason.
I am sending you all my love and good vibes for you will need it, and I know that whatever decision you make - it will be for the best. I am so very sorry.
:(
You are really facing a very difficult path and I wish you strength and courage to walk it. :(

:goodvibes::goodvibes::goodvibes:
and
:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Chaser May 6th, 2010 10:44 AM

If you must rehome Ava, do so with the knowledge that it is the best thing for both dogs. This is not a situation of lack of trying.....your commitment to your girls is beyond admirable and it sounds like you have made amazing progress with them. But this situation sounds terrifying....Kailey got in a fight with a friend's dog that didn't even result in serious injury and it really frightened me. You simply can't risk one of their lives at this point and that is entirely understandable. I know that you will be able to find a wonderful home for Ava if that is what you decide to do. Know that we're behind you in this :grouphug: and :pray: for a speedy recovery for both your girls.

BHRR May 6th, 2010 04:21 PM

I am so very sorry to read this post.

:grouphug: to all.

luckypenny May 7th, 2010 12:58 AM

[QUOTE=Chris21711;915218]Lately you mentioned that Lucky had been a bit squabbly, which is out of character for him....I'm wondering if that boy of yours with his 6th sense noticed the tension building up between the girls and it was his way of trying to lay down the law a bit.[/QUOTE]

Yep, he spoke to me, I just couldn't hear him. Penny did too the past few weeks, and I chalked it up to her being her oddball self. I was watching Ava when I should have had my attention elsewhere.

Right up to the very moment of the attack, and within seconds afterwords, I misinterpreted part of what was going on. I should have trusted Lucky to know best what to do after it began. Instead I panicked and interrupted him rather than taking his cue to do my job.

The girls are healing but it will take some time. They are being kept separated, it's very difficult, but it will remain that way.

Thank you for all the kind words everyone...I feel like I don't deserve them :o but they are appreciated.

Goldfields May 7th, 2010 04:59 AM

luckypenny, you have my sympathy. Quite scary, isn't it? They sound such nasty injuries. Handle them very gently because bites can cause massive bruising. For instance, when Cuddles got Sweetie at the top of her shoulder, the bruising went from there down to the elbow, probably two handspans wide. I don't envy you having to decide how to handle things from here on, I kept both my girls but in hindsight probably shouldn't have. Too much worry for us and the dogs. What breed are yours, are they big dogs? Gentle hugs for both the poor girls, they'd be so sore.


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